Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

Morian · 09-09-2011, 14:54

beatrice, i also wait for admin's answer

you see - it's already easy to be lost in this info... totally

BeatriceSlavinschi · 09-09-2011, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morian

beatrice, i also wait for admin's answer

you see - it's already easy to be lost in this info... totally

Now I'm lost even more ... I have looked in Sibir and Thalia pedigrees and they are half the same ... It's like 50% COI and that's A LOT! Do you know the person who bred them? Because maybe here is the problem ... Are they the real parents of the offsprings or maybe some genetic mutations? I'm not so good with genetics, but 50% is it allowed? I knew something about 20 maximum ... or even less.

monita · 09-09-2011, 18:58

By the rules of FCI, endogamy is allowed, sibling + sibling, father + its daughter, or mother + its son. This is called inbreeding. We call it line breeding if the parents' relatives are the same somewhere. We call it outerbreeding if we match two different lined parents. This is allowed by the FCI but every country can decide otherwise.
I can answer to genetics, inheritance or other questions.

Jennin Lauma · 10-09-2011, 02:49

There does not necessarely need to be tests drawn from the suspected individuals;
in this kind of situations when the suspected dogs have had (according to the pedigree information) several litters and plenty of offspring, one way to try to find out if the pedigrees are correct or not is to test and compare the DNA of the offspring from the suspected individuals. -All the offspring of certain individuals should be genetically (atleast) 50% the same. (Grand children 25% ...and so on).
Maybe it would be easier to find helpfull people among the buyers / owners of the puppies?

CDaniela · 10-09-2011, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennin Lauma

There does not necessarely need to be tests drawn from the suspected individuals;
in this kind of situations when the suspected dogs have had (according to the pedigree information) several litters and plenty of offspring, one way to try to find out if the pedigrees are correct or not is to test and compare the DNA of the offspring from the suspected individuals. -All the offspring of certain individuals should be genetically (atleast) 50% the same. (Grand children 25% ...and so on).
Maybe it would be easier to find helpfull people among the buyers / owners of the puppies?

Do you mean DNA profile? This is more complicated. Dog is doploid oragisms. Two siblings can have a completely identical DNA profile, or completely different.

Jennin Lauma · 11-09-2011, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDaniela

Do you mean DNA profile? This is more complicated. Dog is doploid oragisms. Two siblings can have a completely identical DNA profile, or completely different.

As far as I have understood it is possible to make a DNA test to see if two individuals have same parents (siblings) or one parent (half-siblings) without a sample from the parents needed (by only comparing the supposed siblings DNA to each other).

GalomyOak · 11-09-2011, 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennin Lauma

As far as I have understood it is possible to make a DNA test to see if two individuals have same parents (siblings) or one parent (half-siblings) without a sample from the parents needed (by only comparing the supposed siblings DNA to each other).

I asked our official AKC club DNA profiling lab about this possibility, and they said it was necessary to have both parents, as well as the individual. I guess dogs and humans are different in this way, since I think human siblings can be identified without the DNA of their parents. It's what really makes it so critical to identify and solve these problems before dogs die, and their genes are lost...

CDaniela · 11-09-2011, 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jennin Lauma

As far as I have understood it is possible to make a DNA test to see if two individuals have same parents (siblings) or one parent (half-siblings) without a sample from the parents needed (by only comparing the supposed siblings DNA to each other).

Our breed is loaded with inbreeding. Variability of the breed (genes) is very small. Dogs are genetically very similar. This is not a problem for "human race" (for example).
The only reliable test is paternity and maternity.

If we wanted to determine the difference between SW and CSW, we produce DNA profile of about 100 or more CSW and Sw. Comparing these profiles we can determine the difference. It is likely that some alleles are characteristic only for CSV and others only for Sw. Problem can occur if the genetic difference between SW and SW insignificant (low).

09-09-2011, 14:54	#1
Morian Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: USSR Posts: 2,047	beatrice, i also wait for admin's answer you see - it's already easy to be lost in this info... totally __________________

10-09-2011, 02:49	#4
Jennin Lauma Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Finland Posts: 66	There does not necessarely need to be tests drawn from the suspected individuals; in this kind of situations when the suspected dogs have had (according to the pedigree information) several litters and plenty of offspring, one way to try to find out if the pedigrees are correct or not is to test and compare the DNA of the offspring from the suspected individuals. -All the offspring of certain individuals should be genetically (atleast) 50% the same. (Grand children 25% ...and so on). Maybe it would be easier to find helpfull people among the buyers / owners of the puppies? __________________ -Jenni- http://jenninlauma.weebly.com

09-09-2011, 18:58	#3
monita Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: 3121 Somoskőújfalu Somosi út 161. Posts: 37	By the rules of FCI, endogamy is allowed, sibling + sibling, father + its daughter, or mother + its son. This is called inbreeding. We call it line breeding if the parents' relatives are the same somewhere. We call it outerbreeding if we match two different lined parents. This is allowed by the FCI but every country can decide otherwise. I can answer to genetics, inheritance or other questions.