Puppy prices

[Morian]

Originally Posted by saschia

By the way, I always wonder why people are willing to pay 2500-3500 euros for pups, no matter what parents.

sometimes it looks like a network marketing people buy expensive pups to breed expensive pups for another people which want to produce expensive pups. at us it is... and nothing except show titles matters. and in such case it's just not profitable to research the breed, to test dogs etc
back to the prices. i would ask 1000 eur for my pup (but i don't breed) if i went to slovakian male for example and paid for gas (~1600 km x 2), visa, mating cost, hotel etc., if i paid for tests, if i fed my bitch good, if i spent money for training etc., finally shows, yes... but there are many cases when breeders want even 1500 eur, but it's hard to explain why 1500 and not 500 or 5000. it depends only on their fantasy. and it is single and most usual excuse - this will be very interesting litter with very good blood

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Morian

single and most usual excuse - this will be very interesting litter with very good blood

or... "it comes from a working line"

[Morian]

Originally Posted by Rona

or... "it comes from a working line"

...shy uncontrolable dogs looking through the cage BUT from a working line
but most of all i like these "interesting lines" because breeders can excuse all - defects, behavior etc just telling - oh, it's not so important, important that this litter is sooo interesting, ah, oh...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Rona

or... "it comes from a working line"

That was a brilliant one...

Cheers,

(a still grinning) Michael

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Morian

back to the prices. i would ask 1000 eur for my pup (but i don't breed) if i went to slovakian male for example and paid for gas (~1600 km x 2), visa, mating cost, hotel etc., if i paid for tests, if i fed my bitch good, if i spent money for training etc., finally shows, yes...

You see, I do most of these things and yet I usually don't get the full value. So that's why I ask the full value at least from people who live in countries where the salaries are better than here. And those are the same people who sometimes buy wolfdog puppies, not better than mine for three times as much as I ask.

Maybe I should ask more?

Just for comparison - what I have to give to get the litter:
1) buy wolfdog bitch
2) feed good food, vaccinate, keep healthy
- ok, everybody does these. What more?
3) go to youth presentation, bonitation, SVP, two shows - each around 200-300 km trip
4) go for X-ray and send the images for evaluation
4b) pray for good results ;o)
5a) measure progesterone levels for good timing - didn't do this year, lost 1000 km trip due to that
5b) go for mating (this year it was two trips 500 km each and 4 trips 200 km each, as she did not get pregnant the first time)
6a) go for echo to verify pregnancy (to adjust the food - my bitch gets false pregnancy so I cannot go by her behaviour only)
6b) anything wrong during pregnancy - go to vet, buy medicines, go for echo to control if everything goes OK
7) whelping, care for puppies, feeding the bitch and the pups with obscene amounts of food ;o)
8 ) socialize pups, take for trips, bring visitors
9) give deworming treatments to pups
10) tattoo (+ chips for export)
11) vaccinations (+ Pet Passport)
12) control from the club - pay the membership fees, pay the breeding advisor's trip
13) pedigrees (Export pedigrees for foreigners - cost more)

If I did this all for profit (or to stay at least not too far in red numbers) - I would have to export most of my pups, or sell to the 5% of Slovaks with EU-comparable income. Or maybe produce so many pups that I get the large-volume discounts for everything.

[Morian]

Originally Posted by saschia

So that's why I ask the full value at least from people who live in countries where the salaries are better than here.

not at us... surely

but let's calculate:

1) buy wolfdog bitch = ~800 eur (i take average price)
2) feed good food, vaccinate, keep healthy
- ok, everybody does these. What more? = let it be 5 eur per day for food, so we have 3650 eur only for food during first 2 years - time until first litter and let it be 4000 with vaccinations and keeping healthy (it must be really healthy bitch for these money )
3) go to youth presentation, bonitation, SVP, two shows - each around 200-300 km trip = i don't know how much does it cost for you, but for us it would be something around 500 eur if we have svp, bonitation and shows in our country
4) go for X-ray and send the images for evaluation = at us (i don't know your prices) it's 60-70 eur.
4b) pray for good results ;o) = priceless
5a) measure progesterone levels for good timing - didn't do this year, lost 1000 km trip due to that = at it's only 20 eur
5b) go for mating (this year it was two trips 500 km each and 4 trips 200 km each, as she did not get pregnant the first time) = average between you and us must be 500 eur
6a) go for echo to verify pregnancy (to adjust the food - my bitch gets false pregnancy so I cannot go by her behaviour only)
6b) anything wrong during pregnancy - go to vet, buy medicines, go for echo to control if everything goes OK 6a+6b must be = ~50-100 eur (you forgot vitamines and feeding of pregnant bitch )
7) whelping, care for puppies, feeding the bitch and the pups with obscene amounts of food ;o) if we have 6 pups during 2 months and leave 5 eur per day for each one... = 1800 (!!!)
8 ) socialize pups, take for trips, bring visitors = priceless
9) give deworming treatments to pups = not too much, at us it's less than 1 eur per pup
10) tattoo (+ chips for export) = 50 eur
11) vaccinations (+ Pet Passport) = 15x6 = ~100 eur
12) control from the club - pay the membership fees, pay the breeding advisor's trip = i don't know these prices
13) pedigrees (Export pedigrees for foreigners - cost more) = the same, but let it be also 50 eur x 6 = 300

+ mating fee - 600 eur for 6 pups

and so we have 8840 just for first litter of 6 pups but if we have more than 1 litter, then price will not be more so scary 8840/6= ~1500 eur

[saschia]

Morian, nice math. I think it is a bit (not much) cheaper here (some thing are more expensive, some less), but you can see that the value of the pups (just what you need to invest) is more than 1000 eur that we (ok, I) ask from foreigners, and far more than we get from our neighbours. If I was a good businessman, I should ask at least 2000 e for a pup, to be on the plus side and cover some risks (you don't always get a good bitch).

[saschia]

yea, "interesting blood" and "working line" and "champion parents" are all a good jokes...

And then the real interesting blood and working and champion parents are lost in the ocean of litters that are just produced for money (or whatever other small reasons).

[Morian]

Originally Posted by saschia

yea, "interesting blood" and "working line" and "champion parents" are all a good jokes...

And then the real interesting blood and working and champion parents are lost in the ocean of litters that are just produced for money (or whatever other small reasons).

most of all i like ugly shy etc. dogs taken to breeding because they have these "interesting" bloods. no, no, not because their owners or breeders already paid for them and don't want to hear that their dogs are not super-hyper etc., but because they are "interesting"

[Rona]

Originally Posted by saschia

yea, "interesting blood" and "working line" and "champion parents" are all a good jokes...

Are you sure they are jokes? . Recent text from one of the private sites:

Pups of fantastic characters, suitable for defence and sweet teddies at home, eager to work, looking with devotion at their owners, if well brought up – great companions of the whole family, including kids. The dogs will be willing to work and will be successful at work competitions and at dog shows.

Most breeders are critical, because they are jelous of not being able to breed equally perfect and versatile pups!

[Morian]

oh, rona, surely you speak russian because i saw +/- the same at us

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Rona

Are you sure they are jokes? . Recent text from one of the private sites (my translation):
Most breeders are critical, because they are jelous of not being able to breed equally perfect and versatile pups!

Yes, I am jealous. Although I have great character and exterior bitch and great character and exterior mate, I am not able to guarantee this.

[Morian]

Originally Posted by saschia

Morian, nice math. I think it is a bit (not much) cheaper here (some thing are more expensive, some less), but you can see that the value of the pups (just what you need to invest) is more than 1000 eur that we (ok, I) ask from foreigners, and far more than we get from our neighbours. If I was a good businessman, I should ask at least 2000 e for a pup, to be on the plus side and cover some risks (you don't always get a good bitch).

not nice, it scared me because now i also own a bitch
cheaper or not, but we didn't count training, travels and many other things which we can not remember.
but when we speak about breeders which have many litters per year and surely every bitch has many litters diring its life... that's why i wonder seeing prices like 1200, 1500 etc at such breeders. i didn't mean "family breeders", breeders like you or some others which have 1-2 litters per year and their dogs are firstly their family members, but not a kind of material or financial basis of their existence.

[saschia]

Yes, but if you do the breeding for business, then you need to not only cover your expenses like these, you have to count everything as expense (as you'll pay the taxes, so you want to minimize that), you have to count on risks like yo'll get all the things done but the bitch will be not good enough for breeding (and you should not breed bad bitches), so that's just the money down the drain - and you can resell the bitch but you won't get the expenses and time back.

So all in all, I understand that the pro-breeders ask so much money, I just don't understand that people pay that kind of money, when there are cheaper litters from good quality parents available (even if you'd travel across Europe to get the pup yourself).

I mean, you expect to pay obscene prices for Prada shoes and i-dont-know-the-brands handbags and only small money for chinese look-alikes, but the pups are pups, the parents are comparable (often better as they are tested by experts), the result are often just luck, as you cannot predict much, so why?

[Morian]

i don't understand it too. if i want to buy a csv pup, i look for info about csv, i find dogs, i find owners etc, so finally i can imagine what is a quality pup, what its parents must have except show titles. i think that such people which buy nobody-knows-what-and-who-knows-doesn't-wanna-name-it don't look for info = have no interest = they want just to buy right now and they even don't interest what do they buy = thanks god that they buy pups from other breeders, not from you
and also i don't understand why do some breeders have the same quality, tests etc, and even better sometimes, but don't want 1000 eur and more for their pups

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by saschia

So all in all, I understand that the pro-breeders ask so much money, I just don't understand that people pay that kind of money, when there are cheaper litters from good quality parents available (even if you'd travel across Europe to get the pup yourself).

http://zvierata.bazos.sk/?hledat=Ces...alita=&iddel=1

why if for this puppy quest people from others country ( not from SK or CZ) automaticly price be 1000 euro? not why this same ( yes yes export pedigree pet pasport and chip we can pay too)


p.s. for this later are cheaper buyt others puppy from this super ch when people have this dogs in theys countrys or near home