Puppy prices

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Morian

*well... offtopic... but i am still curious what does this price include if normally price is ~400 eur (not for foreign people...)

Yes, I also ask from foreign people 1000 Euro, as that is the value of pups in my opinion (maybe it would be higher if the father was a big champion or what), but until now I only sold in Slovakia and Czech republic, and people won't pay that much money here. Maybe some would, but I am not a good seller. I can get other value from them, like coming to our shows and youth presentation and bonitation, but I can't pay for the test by that...

From me, the price includes tattoo, chip (if interested), appropriate vaccinations, deworming treatment and quite a good basic socialization and upbringing. My previous litter got their Pet Passports and chips at once, as there were only 3 so I could afford it. For foreigners, the Pet passport and chip is automatic, also export pedigree.

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by saschia

Yes, I also ask from foreign people 1000 Euro, as that is the value of pups in my opinion (maybe it would be higher if the father was a big champion or what), but until now I only sold in Slovakia and Czech republic, and people won't pay that much money here. Maybe some would, but I am not a good seller. I can get other value from them, like coming to our shows and youth presentation and bonitation, but I can't pay for the test by that...

From me, the price includes tattoo, chip (if interested), appropriate vaccinations, deworming treatment and quite a good basic socialization and upbringing. My previous litter got their Pet Passports and chips at once, as there were only 3 so I could afford it. For foreigners, the Pet passport and chip is automatic, also export pedigree.

So you think that people in foreign countries can pay 1000 euro even if slovaks and czechs can't? I would better give a puppy as a gift for a loving family, who will spend a lot of time with a dog, socialise and train him properly and even go to shows, better than sell to someone who only need something expensive to show to others...

We should be kicked to a topic about puppy prices

[martiou07]

here in France, a CSW is sold between 1000 and 1500 euros (sometimes 2000 euros ), I include/understand your request, however to be frank with you, my pups I sell them surroundings 1000 euros, that of course covers my expenses for the range, but also maintenance of my other dogs (food, veterinar...), 4 CSW and 1 Dutch shepherd, as I ensure you as I am nevertheless in the red, this problem interest me much, also I intend to make test my dogs, but from there to make test my pups, honestly, I do not know .

[martiou07]

after yes a more producing stockbreeder, why not, I suppose that could be possible, but me which does not produce enormously, that would be very difficult, and I do not hope to increase the rate/rhythm of reproduction of my breeding family...

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

So you think that people in foreign countries can pay 1000 euro even if slovaks and czechs can't? I would better give a puppy as a gift for a loving family, who will spend a lot of time with a dog, socialise and train him properly and even go to shows, better than sell to someone who only need something expensive to show to others...

The problem is not that they can't, but they won't. Well, it is usually because they can't as that is much higher than their salary and keeping dog is also not cheap, but people who could usually don't want CSW (and are not suited for one either).

I think 1000 Euro is a fair price, but of course I rather sell to good hands for 350 than get 1000 and never know about the pup later. But, I am not a puppy producer, for me it is a hobby and I will never make money on it (even if I was able to sell couple for 1000). But if you have several litters per year you really cannot afford to sponsor the breeding...

By the way, I always wonder why people are willing to pay 2500-3500 euros for pups, no matter what parents. But while there is anybody there willing to pay such prices, there will be people who are selling for such prices.

Originally Posted by Vaiva

We should be kicked to a topic about puppy prices

Second that. Hope some good mod will do exactly that (and I can't, I have mod rights for CZ/SK forum only).

[Morian]

Originally Posted by saschia

By the way, I always wonder why people are willing to pay 2500-3500 euros for pups, no matter what parents.

sometimes it looks like a network marketing people buy expensive pups to breed expensive pups for another people which want to produce expensive pups. at us it is... and nothing except show titles matters. and in such case it's just not profitable to research the breed, to test dogs etc
back to the prices. i would ask 1000 eur for my pup (but i don't breed) if i went to slovakian male for example and paid for gas (~1600 km x 2), visa, mating cost, hotel etc., if i paid for tests, if i fed my bitch good, if i spent money for training etc., finally shows, yes... but there are many cases when breeders want even 1500 eur, but it's hard to explain why 1500 and not 500 or 5000. it depends only on their fantasy. and it is single and most usual excuse - this will be very interesting litter with very good blood

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Morian

single and most usual excuse - this will be very interesting litter with very good blood

or... "it comes from a working line"

[Morian]

Originally Posted by Rona

or... "it comes from a working line"

...shy uncontrolable dogs looking through the cage BUT from a working line
but most of all i like these "interesting lines" because breeders can excuse all - defects, behavior etc just telling - oh, it's not so important, important that this litter is sooo interesting, ah, oh...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Rona

or... "it comes from a working line"

That was a brilliant one...

Cheers,

(a still grinning) Michael

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Morian

back to the prices. i would ask 1000 eur for my pup (but i don't breed) if i went to slovakian male for example and paid for gas (~1600 km x 2), visa, mating cost, hotel etc., if i paid for tests, if i fed my bitch good, if i spent money for training etc., finally shows, yes...

You see, I do most of these things and yet I usually don't get the full value. So that's why I ask the full value at least from people who live in countries where the salaries are better than here. And those are the same people who sometimes buy wolfdog puppies, not better than mine for three times as much as I ask.

Maybe I should ask more?

Just for comparison - what I have to give to get the litter:
1) buy wolfdog bitch
2) feed good food, vaccinate, keep healthy
- ok, everybody does these. What more?
3) go to youth presentation, bonitation, SVP, two shows - each around 200-300 km trip
4) go for X-ray and send the images for evaluation
4b) pray for good results ;o)
5a) measure progesterone levels for good timing - didn't do this year, lost 1000 km trip due to that
5b) go for mating (this year it was two trips 500 km each and 4 trips 200 km each, as she did not get pregnant the first time)
6a) go for echo to verify pregnancy (to adjust the food - my bitch gets false pregnancy so I cannot go by her behaviour only)
6b) anything wrong during pregnancy - go to vet, buy medicines, go for echo to control if everything goes OK
7) whelping, care for puppies, feeding the bitch and the pups with obscene amounts of food ;o)
8 ) socialize pups, take for trips, bring visitors
9) give deworming treatments to pups
10) tattoo (+ chips for export)
11) vaccinations (+ Pet Passport)
12) control from the club - pay the membership fees, pay the breeding advisor's trip
13) pedigrees (Export pedigrees for foreigners - cost more)

If I did this all for profit (or to stay at least not too far in red numbers) - I would have to export most of my pups, or sell to the 5% of Slovaks with EU-comparable income. Or maybe produce so many pups that I get the large-volume discounts for everything.

[Morian]

Originally Posted by saschia

So that's why I ask the full value at least from people who live in countries where the salaries are better than here.

not at us... surely

but let's calculate:

1) buy wolfdog bitch = ~800 eur (i take average price)
2) feed good food, vaccinate, keep healthy
- ok, everybody does these. What more? = let it be 5 eur per day for food, so we have 3650 eur only for food during first 2 years - time until first litter and let it be 4000 with vaccinations and keeping healthy (it must be really healthy bitch for these money )
3) go to youth presentation, bonitation, SVP, two shows - each around 200-300 km trip = i don't know how much does it cost for you, but for us it would be something around 500 eur if we have svp, bonitation and shows in our country
4) go for X-ray and send the images for evaluation = at us (i don't know your prices) it's 60-70 eur.
4b) pray for good results ;o) = priceless
5a) measure progesterone levels for good timing - didn't do this year, lost 1000 km trip due to that = at it's only 20 eur
5b) go for mating (this year it was two trips 500 km each and 4 trips 200 km each, as she did not get pregnant the first time) = average between you and us must be 500 eur
6a) go for echo to verify pregnancy (to adjust the food - my bitch gets false pregnancy so I cannot go by her behaviour only)
6b) anything wrong during pregnancy - go to vet, buy medicines, go for echo to control if everything goes OK 6a+6b must be = ~50-100 eur (you forgot vitamines and feeding of pregnant bitch )
7) whelping, care for puppies, feeding the bitch and the pups with obscene amounts of food ;o) if we have 6 pups during 2 months and leave 5 eur per day for each one... = 1800 (!!!)
8 ) socialize pups, take for trips, bring visitors = priceless
9) give deworming treatments to pups = not too much, at us it's less than 1 eur per pup
10) tattoo (+ chips for export) = 50 eur
11) vaccinations (+ Pet Passport) = 15x6 = ~100 eur
12) control from the club - pay the membership fees, pay the breeding advisor's trip = i don't know these prices
13) pedigrees (Export pedigrees for foreigners - cost more) = the same, but let it be also 50 eur x 6 = 300

+ mating fee - 600 eur for 6 pups

and so we have 8840 just for first litter of 6 pups but if we have more than 1 litter, then price will not be more so scary 8840/6= ~1500 eur

[saschia]

Morian, nice math. I think it is a bit (not much) cheaper here (some thing are more expensive, some less), but you can see that the value of the pups (just what you need to invest) is more than 1000 eur that we (ok, I) ask from foreigners, and far more than we get from our neighbours. If I was a good businessman, I should ask at least 2000 e for a pup, to be on the plus side and cover some risks (you don't always get a good bitch).