Typical temperament of CsWs

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Sorry again, as I know Juri very well and you obviously find his character within the standard, he is not dominant, he is selfconfident and showing body signals of dominance in special situation towards other dogs.

And after a little bit of training and keeping rules he is absolutely no problem with other dogs but stays calm, does he now no longer fit the standard?
When he meets his mother or grandmother he is showing strong submissive behaviour is he now not within the standard anylonger?

Cäsar that you used for breeding did show no dominant behaviour at all and instead shy behaviour on several occasions, did you breed with a non-standard dog? Or did you get to know these dogs well enough to know that their behaviour was due to special situations?

And still, what is the problem with the special dog the discussion started about? How well do you know him?

Ina,

she is Margo.......she knows everything, every dogs and of course she has always the answers.........
For me Juri is a good caractered dog, not extra dominant and absolutly handable........Casar..hmmm..I don't want to write my oppinion about his caracter here...only one, he is everything but not selfconfident.
Borko....hehehe..we travelled together several times, he was my friends's dog, so maybe I know him more than you, Margo.......

And when a dog is well socialized for me not equal that would have saarloose caracter.............anyway Margo, how many saarloose you have????????

[CDaniela]

I spoke many times with Mr. Hartl about the beginnings of a cross breed of the dog's natures. Crossing the wolf and the dog is not easy ... involvement could not be submissive dogs. Wolf- female needed a dominant dog. I think that this - the original genes are present in nature csv, still clearly visible. Working with this dog is complicated .... like to get involved in their breeding dogs quiet and easy to use. But my heart belongs to a dominant dog

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by jasmine

For me Juri is a good caractered dog, not extra dominant and absolutly handable........

I agree with your words. But you must also agree that he is not a dog which will hug other males. And he is also not a dog who on dog show is looking hollow in the air or counting butterlies flying outside the window.

Originally Posted by jasmine

Casar..hmmm..I don't want to write my oppinion about his caracter here...only one, he is everything but not selfconfident...

Hmmm...if Casar is not selfconfident than how you will can your dogs?

Originally Posted by jasmine

Borko....hehehe..we travelled together several times, he was my friends's dog, so maybe I know him more than you, Margo.......

Yes, yes. He was sweet dog playing with cats and chickens, kissing other males, of course he was never growling. He was also inviting all people to his house... And slow and lazy like pekinesse....

But oppps - we are talking about Borko Kollarov dvor... right?

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by Margo

I agree with your words. But you must also agree that he is not a dog which will hug other males. And he is also not a dog who on dog show is looking hollow in the air or counting butterlies flying outside the window.



Hmmm...if Casar is not selfconfident than how you will can your dogs?



Yes, yes. He was sweet dog playing with cats and chickens, kissing other males, of course he was never growling. He was also inviting all people to his house... And slow and lazy like pekinesse....

But oppps - we are talking about Borko Kollarov dvor... right?

???????? Have you seen Gisu to give kissess to other males? Or did I wrote that Gisu,Gandalf and Emir kissess each other??????????????????????
I wrote they didn't want to kill each other...I think it is not the same things !
Slow and lazy like an old pekingese????? ohhhhh so where were the eyes' of the judges when put him in the firts place several times...several times!!!!

And please don't write about Casar to us: many of us know him very well !!!!!!

[Morian]

Originally Posted by jasmine

???????? Have you seen Gisu to give kissess to other males? Or did I wrote that Gisu,Gandalf and Emir kissess each other??????????????????????

o-o
my male usually does it... and never starts to fight first (or only in some cases when he must protect me or other "pack" members), but he is surely able to (it's checked ). does it mean that i own a pekinesse? and what is dominancy? desire to kill all moving around? somebody is wrong now...

[jasmine]

yes...you are right...something is wrong.....
everybody sing theire own song

for me a well socialized , handable dog could behave in dogshow, could behave among another dogs, people.
And it doesn't mean that this kind of dogs don't fit to the standard!!!!

If you couldn't handle your dog's agressivity/dominancy it means not you are the pack leader.
That's simple.

[Morian]

...it all looks like some people try to turn serious faults into specialities
dog can be dominant, can be calm, can be active etc., but never must be shy or agressive. and this difference exists, sorry. dog must be handable and obidient. maybe some people lazy to train their dogs want to say that their dogs are just typical we all are different too with different temperaments, but we all are normal (i hope ). so there is a difference between individual characteristic and pathology and this is big mistake to mix it.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Morian

...it all looks like some people try to turn serious faults into specialities
dog can be dominant, can be calm, can be active etc., but never must be shy or agressive. and this difference exists, sorry. dog must be handable and obidient. maybe some people lazy to train their dogs want to say that their dogs are just typical we all are different too with different temperaments, but we all are normal (i hope ). so there is a difference between individual characteristic and pathology and this is big mistake to mix it.

Yes, it is true. The problem is to "evaluate" the real character of a dog. Which is shy? Which is just not socialized? Or just has submisive character?
Agressive? Or trained? Or scared and attacking?

I will call you two examples. There was a nice dog with GREAT character. Very good stable dog which didn't wanted to attack just for fun. But his owner decided that he want to pass some IPO exams. The dog was beaten so long that he started to attack people. Not only decoy but also "normal" people. I knew this dog before his "training". And I know that later he was described as "extremly agressive" wolfdog".
Another example: there was a dog which had the tendency to attack people without any reason. Really agressive. His owner used electric collar and made this dog a "nice, calm dog" - the dog was too affraid to bite anybody. Now he is know as a dog with nice, friendly and calm character....

You can change the dog, you can change his "publicity" - but what you can not change is the genetic.

People called first dogs "agressive" but exactly puppies of the second one can "inheritate" the "genes of agression"...


The problem is that what you can read in internet, what the owners are writing on their pages, what is told about some dogs is sometimes very far from the reality... You saw here that some dogs were called "shy", some described as "nice" and "friendly", some as "calm" and some as "hyperactive", some "agressive" and some "stable". You need really a lot to do to find out what is true.... because in many cases what you hear are just ..fairy-tales...

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by Margo

Yes, yes. He was sweet dog playing with cats and chickens, kissing other males, of course he was never growling. He was also inviting all people to his house... And slow and lazy like pekinesse....

But oppps - we are talking about Borko Kollarov dvor... right?

And ooopsz: beside of Borko were chickens and also cats.....and he was never agressive with foreigners.

[wolfin]

activ and dominant are two diferent things.
Activ dog can be without agresion and passiv dog can be with agresion

like one example from one dog show:
I saw one passive dog in ring with active dog - diferent is very big
both was without animal or people agresion but both was diferent in temperament.

[jasmine]

But Daiva,

as we are different...our dogs could be different
if a dog calm or passive, especial in a show it doesn't mean that his behaviour is not the standard or !!! that he is the same in every other part of the life !!!

Edit

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by jasmine

But Daiva,

as we are different...our dogs could be different
if a dog calm or passive, especial in a show it doesn't mean that his behaviour is not the standard or !!! that he is the same in every other part of the life !!!

Edit

WHAT !!!!! You want say - used people a drugs for dog show- oh this are in FCI disqualification from dogs show. This is cheating ....
aha and this are- in home dogs are this same dominant agresor like others wolfdogs

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by wolfin

WHAT !!!!! You want say - used a drugs for dog show- oh this are in FCI disqualification from dogs show. This is cheating ....
aha and this are- in home dogs are this same dominant agresor like others wolfdogs

Drugs ????
What a hell are you talking about?????

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by wolfin

WHAT !!!!! You want say - used people a drugs for dog show- oh this are in FCI disqualification from dogs show. This is cheating ....
aha and this are- in home dogs are this same dominant agresor like others wolfdogs

Daiva........you posted your text to me...to my former post.
What kind of reaction did you expect???????

And the topic was starting with Gisu...and always come back to this dog...some of you didn't wrote the name just pionting...but we all know that you are talking about him !


Edit

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by jasmine

And ooopsz: beside of Borko were chickens and also cats.....and he was never agressive with foreigners.

I will not list the stories... I can say only one: Borko was a very typical male with very typical CzW behaviour...

Far away from being a pug....

[jasmine]

[quote=Margo;339866] I will not list the stories... I can say only one: Borko was a very typical male with very typical CzW behaviour...


I have never told the opposit...........

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

Far away from being a pug....

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

And slow and lazy like pekinesse

As Margo keeps insulting other breeds I want to say something from my little experiences...
I was allways a little worried about Brukne's behavior - she never shows any agressiveness towards people (unless they are agressive towards me, not her ), but she is really not too good with other females (except her sister Walmaj and Callisto z Peronowki ) and young males I used to think, that I've mist something in her education... BUT. When I started to create a TV show about dogs, I had a possibility to spend time with breeders of various breeds every week. Known breeders in Lithuania and other countries. Experienced ones. Believe me, that was a release! Pekinesses were trying to kiss me (10 of them at once), but after 5 minuts two males were trying to kill each other!!! Breeder had to make a good work to tear them apart! Chihuahua males - just the same! Breeder of Great Danes said "I can take a male and one of the females - females can not be kept together in one car or outside!) White swiss shepherds - females live apart from each other in one home My friend, breeding German shepherds, said "oh my female just bite my face" as this is a totally normal thing And many other examples

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

As Margo keeps insulting other breeds

Take is as: or or

I love also other breeds. I LOVE pugs - I have always a lot of fun with them... I like them since one of them terrorized Bolton - I never met such "insolent" young lady... I love GSD - I had them for years and they still own part of my heart. I love malinois - if I would not have CzW I would own one of them... I like pekinese - I owned a peke-mix many years ago. HE was a dominant dog - more dominant than caucasian ovtscharka owned by my friends...
There are many really great breeds.... But there is always something what gives the reason to "insult" them.... (even if it works in both sides )

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

I was allways a little worried about Brukne's behavior - she never shows any agressiveness towards people (unless they are agressive towards me, not her ), but she is really not too good with other females (except her sister Walmaj and Callisto z Peronowki ) and young males I used to think, that I've mist something in her education... BUT. When I started to create a TV show about dogs, I had a possibility to spend time with breeders of various breeds every week. Known breeders in Lithuania and other countries. Experienced ones. Believe me, that was a release! Pekinesses were trying to kiss me (10 of them at once), but after 5 minuts two males were trying to kill each other!!! Breeder had to make a good work to tear them apart! Chihuahua males - just the same! Breeder of Great Danes said "I can take a male and one of the females - females can not be kept together in one car or outside!) White swiss shepherds - females live apart from each other in one home My friend, breeding German shepherds, said "oh my female just bite my face" as this is a totally normal thing And many other examples

Exactly!! Not a long time ago there was a pretty famous case of two yorkshire females which killed a miniature poodle female...

But it is nothing - now the "top" breeds in PL are yorkshire terriers... You really can not imagine how many people come to our kennel club asking for advice because the yorks are terrorizing their families: bitting children, guests or attacking other dogs... The most agressive dogs which I meet on dog shows are... labradors... It is much more "dangerous" by their ring than by amstaffs...

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Jasmine

ohhhhh so where were the eyes' of the judges when put him in the firts place several times...several times!!!!

In the same place as when they started to give preferences to Bulldogs without nose which today are unable to walk over one quarter without faint, to German Shepherds with over angulation and serious top line problems which today moves like a frog in the ring, to Brazilian Mastiffs with atipical character which today fear people instead of be a good guardian dog, and all that because them it looks nicer and that's why right.

After "Pedigree dogs" I think every breeder should think twice before try to use the dogshow titles as merit and proof of quality because now lay people also got informed about what's happening at the dogshows.

For CzW it's even more sad, because often what the judges are seeking for and considering as correct is completly different of what the standard ask for.

It's unbelievable that there are still breeders which give value to show titles and even select their studs taking the titles as basis.