Typical temperament of CsWs

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by jasmine

For me Juri is a good caractered dog, not extra dominant and absolutly handable........

I agree with your words. But you must also agree that he is not a dog which will hug other males. And he is also not a dog who on dog show is looking hollow in the air or counting butterlies flying outside the window.

Originally Posted by jasmine

Casar..hmmm..I don't want to write my oppinion about his caracter here...only one, he is everything but not selfconfident...

Hmmm...if Casar is not selfconfident than how you will can your dogs?

Originally Posted by jasmine

Borko....hehehe..we travelled together several times, he was my friends's dog, so maybe I know him more than you, Margo.......

Yes, yes. He was sweet dog playing with cats and chickens, kissing other males, of course he was never growling. He was also inviting all people to his house... And slow and lazy like pekinesse....

But oppps - we are talking about Borko Kollarov dvor... right?

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by Margo

I agree with your words. But you must also agree that he is not a dog which will hug other males. And he is also not a dog who on dog show is looking hollow in the air or counting butterlies flying outside the window.



Hmmm...if Casar is not selfconfident than how you will can your dogs?



Yes, yes. He was sweet dog playing with cats and chickens, kissing other males, of course he was never growling. He was also inviting all people to his house... And slow and lazy like pekinesse....

But oppps - we are talking about Borko Kollarov dvor... right?

???????? Have you seen Gisu to give kissess to other males? Or did I wrote that Gisu,Gandalf and Emir kissess each other??????????????????????
I wrote they didn't want to kill each other...I think it is not the same things !
Slow and lazy like an old pekingese????? ohhhhh so where were the eyes' of the judges when put him in the firts place several times...several times!!!!

And please don't write about Casar to us: many of us know him very well !!!!!!

[Morian]

Originally Posted by jasmine

???????? Have you seen Gisu to give kissess to other males? Or did I wrote that Gisu,Gandalf and Emir kissess each other??????????????????????

o-o
my male usually does it... and never starts to fight first (or only in some cases when he must protect me or other "pack" members), but he is surely able to (it's checked ). does it mean that i own a pekinesse? and what is dominancy? desire to kill all moving around? somebody is wrong now...

[jasmine]

yes...you are right...something is wrong.....
everybody sing theire own song

for me a well socialized , handable dog could behave in dogshow, could behave among another dogs, people.
And it doesn't mean that this kind of dogs don't fit to the standard!!!!

If you couldn't handle your dog's agressivity/dominancy it means not you are the pack leader.
That's simple.

[Morian]

...it all looks like some people try to turn serious faults into specialities
dog can be dominant, can be calm, can be active etc., but never must be shy or agressive. and this difference exists, sorry. dog must be handable and obidient. maybe some people lazy to train their dogs want to say that their dogs are just typical we all are different too with different temperaments, but we all are normal (i hope ). so there is a difference between individual characteristic and pathology and this is big mistake to mix it.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Morian

...it all looks like some people try to turn serious faults into specialities
dog can be dominant, can be calm, can be active etc., but never must be shy or agressive. and this difference exists, sorry. dog must be handable and obidient. maybe some people lazy to train their dogs want to say that their dogs are just typical we all are different too with different temperaments, but we all are normal (i hope ). so there is a difference between individual characteristic and pathology and this is big mistake to mix it.

Yes, it is true. The problem is to "evaluate" the real character of a dog. Which is shy? Which is just not socialized? Or just has submisive character?
Agressive? Or trained? Or scared and attacking?

I will call you two examples. There was a nice dog with GREAT character. Very good stable dog which didn't wanted to attack just for fun. But his owner decided that he want to pass some IPO exams. The dog was beaten so long that he started to attack people. Not only decoy but also "normal" people. I knew this dog before his "training". And I know that later he was described as "extremly agressive" wolfdog".
Another example: there was a dog which had the tendency to attack people without any reason. Really agressive. His owner used electric collar and made this dog a "nice, calm dog" - the dog was too affraid to bite anybody. Now he is know as a dog with nice, friendly and calm character....

You can change the dog, you can change his "publicity" - but what you can not change is the genetic.

People called first dogs "agressive" but exactly puppies of the second one can "inheritate" the "genes of agression"...


The problem is that what you can read in internet, what the owners are writing on their pages, what is told about some dogs is sometimes very far from the reality... You saw here that some dogs were called "shy", some described as "nice" and "friendly", some as "calm" and some as "hyperactive", some "agressive" and some "stable". You need really a lot to do to find out what is true.... because in many cases what you hear are just ..fairy-tales...

[jefta]

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

Yes, it is true. The problem is to "evaluate" the real character of a dog. Which is shy? Which is just not socialized? Or just has submisive character?
Agressive? Or trained? Or scared and attacking?

as long as breeders believe that every shy dog is great character but not socialized this situation which I saw in Trusalova and on dog shows will never change
It's easy to verify is dog scared and attacking.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

Yes, it is true. The problem is to "evaluate" the real character of a dog. Which is shy? Which is just not socialized? Or just has submisive character?
Agressive? Or trained? Or scared and attacking?

. You saw here that some dogs were called "shy", some described as "nice" and "friendly", some as "calm" and some as "hyperactive", some "agressive" and some "stable". You need really a lot to do to find out what is true.... because in many cases what you hear are just ..fairy-tales...

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

Now let's take a not trained wolfdog attacked by huge "Schwarzenerger"-decoy. According the bonitation rules our Wolfdog should change to "kamikaze" dog and attack although the dogs knows EXACTLY that he has no chance to win. A dumb dog will do this. Clever dog will avoid confrontation... In the best possible way...

The problem is such dogs are judged according the pattern and called "weak" or even "shy". EVEN if they can be trained into a very good "strong" dogs (if a dog is trained to "win" with Schwarzeneger-decoys such dog will believe very fast in his "power" and will start to attack also frontal. But it must be trained/teached).

What I want to say that in many cases - when we do not take into consideration the real character of this breed we do not select for good Wolfdogs but we made selection to have "not-thinking" "kamikaze dogs"... To have less inteligent dogs as we have at the moment...

I knew we had the same opinion, I totally agree. And that is exactly why I don´t like the Czech bonitation and prefer the Slovakian one. I have seen fear aggressive dogs getting an Of because they attacked in a trained situation they could not escape.

It also is a point of view according to argumentation for defense training. It very often is said that it makes a dog safer because it will only attack the arm. I was defended by my not trained and very thoughtfull dog, she grabbed the butt. Very safe for the dog, very effective and not causing severe damage to the attacker but can be hold for a long time. She defended without hesitation in a situation where I would not have been able to defend myself but would have got bad marks in character test.

Ina

[Morian]

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

You can change the dog, you can change his "publicity" - but what you can not change is the genetic.

but then how to be sure that it is genetic? does this "shy" (or "agressive") gene exist? for example - my second dog. i don't know is it genetic or he just wasn't socialized or or or... (and there iare no doubts if we try to evaluate his behavior... ) one more example. shy parent and its pup - will we ever find out was he genetically shy or he just copied his parent's behavior? etc etc etc. it's too unclear. we can only trust when it's impossible to check cause we can not know for sure why is some dog shy or agressive etc. we can only listen its story from its breeder or owner. and yes, there the legends start

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

You can change the dog, you can change his "publicity" - but what you can not change is the genetic.

This sentense sounds realy good...but please try to explain us the meaning!
And I'm just wondering how could we measured just the simply genetical behaviour.........


Edit

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by Margo

Yes, yes. He was sweet dog playing with cats and chickens, kissing other males, of course he was never growling. He was also inviting all people to his house... And slow and lazy like pekinesse....

But oppps - we are talking about Borko Kollarov dvor... right?

And ooopsz: beside of Borko were chickens and also cats.....and he was never agressive with foreigners.

[wolfin]

activ and dominant are two diferent things.
Activ dog can be without agresion and passiv dog can be with agresion

like one example from one dog show:
I saw one passive dog in ring with active dog - diferent is very big
both was without animal or people agresion but both was diferent in temperament.

[jasmine]

But Daiva,

as we are different...our dogs could be different
if a dog calm or passive, especial in a show it doesn't mean that his behaviour is not the standard or !!! that he is the same in every other part of the life !!!

Edit

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by jasmine

But Daiva,

as we are different...our dogs could be different
if a dog calm or passive, especial in a show it doesn't mean that his behaviour is not the standard or !!! that he is the same in every other part of the life !!!

Edit

WHAT !!!!! You want say - used people a drugs for dog show- oh this are in FCI disqualification from dogs show. This is cheating ....
aha and this are- in home dogs are this same dominant agresor like others wolfdogs

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by wolfin

WHAT !!!!! You want say - used a drugs for dog show- oh this are in FCI disqualification from dogs show. This is cheating ....
aha and this are- in home dogs are this same dominant agresor like others wolfdogs

Drugs ????
What a hell are you talking about?????

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by jasmine

Drugs ????
What a hell are you talking about?????

Dog all time have this same temperament _ NOT charakter but temperament- and IF you say in dog show he is calm in home not - this are one idea .. drugs.
I not believe in people to much - they used this - and I saw dogs with this in dog show. ( in mind have not only CSW but and moore breeds) and who are diferents I know very well.
but make this or not- this are this people conscience.

[Silvester]

Ok, obviously i need to explain how i have meant this words:
Originally Posted by jasmine
I realy don't think that the agressiv, dominant dogs would be wished nowadays.
Originally posted by Silvester:
Yeah, that´s right - it´s exactly my opinion also !

I meant it only in the way of : Not TOO aggressive and not TOO dominant !

Of course i agree in generally with what Margo told here - I also would not like to have a Csw with character of a Golden retriever or as shy as a Saarloos, no question !.

I think it´s very much a question also on what someone personally makes for him/herself the definition of "aggressive " or "dominant" .

As i wrote above - I meant it only in the way of : Not TOO much aggressive!

And I think there can be no discussion about this - for we all don`t need pitbulls in the jacket and mask of Csw !

Best greetings to all

Silvester

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by wolfin

WHAT !!!!! You want say - used people a drugs for dog show- oh this are in FCI disqualification from dogs show. This is cheating ....
aha and this are- in home dogs are this same dominant agresor like others wolfdogs

Daiva........you posted your text to me...to my former post.
What kind of reaction did you expect???????

And the topic was starting with Gisu...and always come back to this dog...some of you didn't wrote the name just pionting...but we all know that you are talking about him !


Edit

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by jasmine

Daiva........you posted your text to me...to my former post.
What kind of reaction did you expect???????

And the topic was starting with Gisu...and always come back to this dog...some of you didn't wrote the name just pionting...but we all know that you are talking about him !


Edit

sory but for me not. Themat are ABOUT temperament and we speak about dogs, please not think about this: world not runn only about CW dogs.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by jasmine

And ooopsz: beside of Borko were chickens and also cats.....and he was never agressive with foreigners.

I will not list the stories... I can say only one: Borko was a very typical male with very typical CzW behaviour...

Far away from being a pug....