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| Breed standard & bonitations How typical CzW should look like, measurements and commentaries to the breed standard, information about bonitations and youth presentations.... |
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| Breed standard & bonitations How typical CzW should look like, measurements and commentaries to the breed standard, information about bonitations and youth presentations.... |
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05-09-2008, 12:52
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#1 | |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 188
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Quote:
yeeess...good question...I have got nice videospot about bonitacio in Hronec...some part is very interresting  agressivity is biggest problem than shyness...and I think the klubs must think over and change the caracter test!!!! |
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05-09-2008, 13:22
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#2 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Późna
Posts: 1,281
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Quote:
 It makes more things easier.... and make the air more clear...  Let say it open and ask Michael questions about the bonitation of Gorbi Zlata Palz directly... We were there, we know why the results was as it is... It has no sence to make something top secret because there is really nothing to hide... |
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05-09-2008, 13:30
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#3 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kadaň
Posts: 1,622
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Massimo, my english is not so perfect, so I don´t understand what you mean.....If was bonitation in Pavia "under" czech club? Or?.....
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05-09-2008, 13:42
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#4 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Prague 6
Posts: 2,090
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I am speaking about the "X files" bonitations!! http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/bonitations/141.html http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/bonitations/136.html http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/bonitations/122.html http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/bonitations/119.html http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/bonitations/111.html http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/bonitations/102.html http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/bonitations/97.html Do you know if these bonitations are considered NOT VALID by czech club? massimo
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---------- Oliver & Lunatica |
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05-09-2008, 15:31
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#5 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,190
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05-09-2008, 15:38
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#6 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Prague 6
Posts: 2,090
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Bonitations made from people not members of Czech Club are also Valid (slovak judges for example). Can somebody from CZ/SK club help me find out? massimo
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---------- Oliver & Lunatica |
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05-09-2008, 15:45
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#7 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,190
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05-09-2008, 13:30
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#8 | |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 188
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And I could write about other dogs...but I won't do it in an open forum.....and I won't do it becase not this is the topic : how could we write a lot of bad things about others. So please go back to the bonitacion beside takeing personality. Nobody was writing about kennels.breeders, dogs just you. We want to discuss about bonitacio and not fighting with each other. So please mixing the shit! Edit |
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05-09-2008, 15:33
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#9 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Późna
Posts: 1,281
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So you see now it is REALLY better to write the names because in other case there can be HUGE misunderstanding. I see from the post written by Massimo you were writing about Geryon. It is another good argument to write about some dogs openly - some gossips spread behind the back of the owners and breeders became really funny and far away from the reality. But in such case it is a pitty that "lie repeated often enough become the truth"...  So I would like to write about it now...You were not im Hronec. You just saw some movies made by the mobile phone so it is no wonder what you know about this bonitation is totally different from the reality... So maybe I can make it more clear to you and all the people which follow our discussion - if I miss something or forget something pleople which were there (Michael, Massimo, Daiva, Satu, and some more) will add something and correct my words... The bonitation in Hronec was VERY problematic - you can see it on the end results where even very good dogs become notes and character codes which are much worser than the dogs are in reality... The reasons were different - place, stress, number of dogs, many "beginners", aso... ANYWAY there were 3 more problematic dogs. Problematic during the measurements but really great and normaly behaving in the real life... By all of them they have to be showed by other person (in all three cases by their breeders). When the owner was next to the dogs shared the stress and handled like crazy... I will not speak about 2 other but about Geryon which you mentioned... It was like Massimo wrote - with Daiva the dog didn't allowed to be measured even when I tried to help her - he was protecting himself and I think it is the video you saw for sure. But later we changed and only I started to show him. Without any problems I get the muzzle off of him and calmed him down - just few nice words and the dog chaged and calmed down. Sona measured him - when he started to get nervous we just stroked him what made him extremly happy and made possible next measurements... The bonitation was not perfect by Geryon - nobody says it was - but with some training with possitive methods it will be possible to make bonitation without any problems... Anyway the behavoiour which Geryon showed has been put into his bonitation code - as you can see because of such behavoiur he is "only" Od (irritable - distrustfull) and "only" P3 ("very good") and not more Of or Og (well balanced or perfect but less courage) and P1 ("excellent") which he could get if he would behave NORMAL... As you can see NOTHING has been HIDDEN - all date is visible in the bonitation code... If you do not believe me please ask Sona Bognarova - judge which made the bonitation or any person which was there and really saw the WHOLE bonitation of Geryon...
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05-09-2008, 13:34
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#10 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Prague 6
Posts: 2,090
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And please do NOT imagine things as they are not. Two bonitations were made to quite nervous and untouchable dogs. Geryon z Peronowki and Gorbi Zlata Palz. Geryon z Peronowki had Muzzle and needed 2 people (owner and breeder) to hold him and distract him during measurements. The owner alone (in this case Daiva) was not able to make him be measured. Gorbi Zlata Palz same thing...the owner wasn't even able to PUT the muzzle on him. But the breeder (Micheal) took the dog, went away and returned after a few minutes with a brand new dog. No muzzle was anymore necessary. It was like a statue and Sona could do ANYTHING she wanted. No violence was done to the dog, it was just shown to the dog that he is NOT the boss and he CANNOT do anything he wants. In fact Gorbi didn't have his tail under his belly, he wasn't in terror as dogs are when they are hit. I do the same to Oliver so I know very well. And I would NEVER be violent to one of my dogs, I prefer if you cut my hands off. If anybody on this site had a puppy (i wonder...  ) they know very well what it means to show the puppy who is the boss.Gorbi's behaviour was not his real nature. I suppose also Geryon's behaviour is NOT his real nature, but both are somehow caused by their owners. Massimo
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---------- Oliver & Lunatica |
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05-09-2008, 13:46
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#11 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kadaň
Posts: 1,622
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Margo, please don´t forget, before 2003 was here "old club goverment" and we have not documents from this time.....Now is new club goverment and all members of club can see all what they want.
And stop with writting about dogs with disqualification defects in czech breeding. It is not right . I am in breedcomission and I don´t remember time, when we put some bad dog (with P14 defects) to breeding......And I don´t remember case, when small dog have more cm in code. I think, nobody does it here.... |
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05-09-2008, 13:54
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#12 | ||
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Późna
Posts: 1,281
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 Nobody can blame your for it and I can really make HUGE list of thinks which the new board of the club makes much better as it was before... Don't worry - I have also many positive thigs which I can write about the Czech style of leading the breed but not we are not wroting about good sides...  Quote:
The open lips are really the best example and someone must do something with it - just look on the males and say it openly: it is almost not possible to find A dog in CZ which has TYPICAL lips... They have all little open or VERY open lips what make their had looking totally different... |
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05-09-2008, 14:14
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#13 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Where the wolf lives
Posts: 6,095
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Margo helped me to show Geryon but I not bit him. But Gorbi? Michael must punish he during measurement really and everybody see it in Hronec. He must strangle Gorbi and it not worked. Michael took dog and go away. When he come back Gorbi was so punished, his tongue was BLUE. He was in shock and for me it is no wonder Sona could do ANYTHING with him. Remember there was many people who see it. Letty from Holland. Satu and many many more - Massimo not tell lies now
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05-09-2008, 15:34
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#14 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Prague 6
Posts: 2,090
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I am no liar, I speak for what I see and I confirm my previous statement. I am strongly against Electric Collar though. What do you think? massimo
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---------- Oliver & Lunatica |
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