Differences in bonitations...

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by Margo

Edith, if you think you are right why you never asked why dog from your kennel (Crying Wolf Falco) is still P5 (note "good") even if he has two disqualification faults (size under minimum - 64 cm) and character (shy - Ob)? It was EXACTLY the same case.... He is very nice dog which is under minimum size. The note was lower only because of his character... When he would have perfect character like Daimon have also Falco would be A64 Of R1 P3....
So why you wonder first right now...

Margo, My question was not against you or your dog(s)! I was just wondering.............if we have the same bonitacions...how could be big differences ??????....an in this case how could be happened that some bonitacions in some countries are not accepted.........

about HD: yes...it would be good if we could see the hd results in bonitacion code....or...the dogs could be bonitated and bred just if they have got official hd results (like in Hungary and some other countries)....

Edit


PS: I looked through the studdog list and I couldn't find dogs under the standard with P1 and/or P3 code. But maybe it is my fault.........

[Hanka]

To Vaiva:
In bonitation codes are only defects. If czech breed comission (or bonitation comission) see some small exterier defects what have not character of defects, we write it to note only. Is not right, dogs with diskvalification defects have it in note, but no in codes. (In note you can read open lips, but in real it is not Really open lips, but only very little. It is just like: "danger-children of this dogs can have open lips when somebody will combinate two dogs with this small mistake". Or in note can be some mistake or defect what has not letter in bonitation code.....
And: all members of Czech club can see full bonitation codes + NOTES on clubpage. We have it!!!! already.
So everybody in Czech can know all about dog, what somebody wants know....On foto can be perfect dog, he can have perfect code, But in note you can read something more....
In other countries it does not exist, I think......
Do it Vaiva, make oficial club in your country (for wolfdogs), keep conditions for breeding and "our" breed will be better.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Do it Vaiva, make oficial club in your country (for wolfdogs), keep conditions for breeding and "our" breed will be better.

Dear Hanka,
in this years we have II CSV CLUB dogs show in Lithuania and II bonitation in me country.

all dogs who have breeds right in LT have and bonitation and HD results.

greatings
vet.doc. FCI and bonitation judge, CVK in Lithuania president
Daiva Rimaityte

[Hanka]

So great )). Now you can only write notes behind bonitation codes on some club pages . If all clubs wil do the same.......Dream

[Liesbeth]

Originally Posted by Hanka

So great )). Now you can only write notes behind bonitation codes on some club pages . If all clubs wil do the same.......Dream

Great idea. I'll propose the same in Belgium!

Liesbeth

[*Satu]

Why bonitationjudge can make bonitation to own dogs and puppies?

Or why somebody use electricity collar in bonitation? or they use violence?
and why dog who is very aggresive have P1-P3?

"everyone can live whit dog who is not looking like perfect but not if dog wants eat all peoples and other dogs"

[Hanka]

Satu, where and when hapenned it? If is somebody member of breedcomission, he (she) must not be member of this in moment when his (her) dog make bonitation.
For example like me in Czech republic. I think, I was one time on bonitation and I was in bonitation comission. But in moment of bonitation I must not be in commission. It must be official, on the paper from bonitation where are bonitation results. I must not measure my dog, I must not tell about his result and bonitation comission have minus one member in this moment. But I don´t know, how is it in other countries......

[*Satu]

Hanka, take your time and check all bonitation results.


I think WE need INTERNATIONAL CSV CLUB and all breedclubs haves same orgin bonitation and test rules.
if some club/country whant´s strict rules than orgin they can make it.

Also we need more bonitationjudges and that International Club can teach all botitationjudges.

I know very many breeds and they have that kind of INT CLUB.
They have meetings every second year.

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by *Satu

I think WE need INTERNATIONAL CSV CLUB and all breedclubs haves same orgin bonitation and test rules.

It would be great, but is it only wish, witch dont function. Every national kenel club is dependent and will nod accept any international club. Is only one way - every country must have own club and this clubs must cooperate and make common rules.

[Margo]

Originally Posted by *Satu

Hanka, take your time and check all bonitation results.

I think WE need INTERNATIONAL CSV CLUB and all breedclubs haves same orgin bonitation and test rules.
if some club/country whant´s strict rules than orgin they can make it.

Also we need more bonitationjudges and that International Club can teach all botitationjudges.

I know very many breeds and they have that kind of INT CLUB.
They have meetings every second year.

As Pavel wrote it will be hard to make such kind of club on the official way. But Slovak Club (together with Czech Club) try to organize word-wide community of judges and breeders (and owners of course) which cooperate together and follow the same rules... It is just starting - the data are being collected and we try to prepare everything.... So give us some time and meetings like Hronec (with exchanging of infromation) can transform to official meetings with a very good formulated goals...

[Liesbeth]

Originally Posted by *Satu

Hanka, take your time and check all bonitation results.


I think WE need INTERNATIONAL CSV CLUB and all breedclubs haves same orgin bonitation and test rules.
if some club/country whant´s strict rules than orgin they can make it.

Also we need more bonitationjudges and that International Club can teach all botitationjudges.

I know very many breeds and they have that kind of INT CLUB.
They have meetings every second year.

I think this is a great idea. We organise our second bonitation in Belgium this year, and it was very difficult to find a judge that suits everyone! Our bonitation will be perfectly official, but there will be always somebody complaining about the nationality of the judge, the way he makes the bonitation, Czech or Slovak, etc...

If there would be an international sort of club who makes sure that all bonitations are comparable etc., that would be just great!

Belgium likes to coöperate

Liesbeth

[massimo]

wow...this thread is becoming "let's see who throws more shit on other breeders!!"
Margo, can you change the title?

[massimo]

I have no time to make official request but anyway it is not SO important for me.
Somebody asked me a question and for some reason I'm not sure if I can reply.
Are the recent bonitations mad in Italy:
Recognized or not from Czech and Slovak club?
Does anybody in contact with the club know this reply?
I'm not speaking about this site, we know that the Italian bonitations are not valid for wolfdog.org, but for the official clubs?
Sasha? Hanka? do you know?
massimo

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by *Satu

Why bonitationjudge can make bonitation to own dogs and puppies?

Or why somebody use electricity collar in bonitation? or they use violence?
and why dog who is very aggresive have P1-P3?

"everyone can live whit dog who is not looking like perfect but not if dog wants eat all peoples and other dogs"

yeeess...good question...I have got nice videospot about bonitacio in Hronec...some part is very interresting
agressivity is biggest problem than shyness...and I think the klubs must think over and change the caracter test!!!!

[Margo]

Originally Posted by jasmine

yeeess...good question...I have got nice videospot about bonitacio in Hronec...some part is very interresting
agressivity is biggest problem than shyness...and I think the klubs must think over and change the caracter test!!!!

Let's stop play the game "Quest which dog I mean" It makes more things easier.... and make the air more clear...
Let say it open and ask Michael questions about the bonitation of Gorbi Zlata Palz directly... We were there, we know why the results was as it is... It has no sence to make something top secret because there is really nothing to hide...

[Hanka]

Massimo, my english is not so perfect, so I don´t understand what you mean.....If was bonitation in Pavia "under" czech club? Or?.....

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by Margo

Let's stop play the game "Quest which dog I mean" It makes more things easier.... and make the air more clear...
Let say it open and ask Michael questions about the bonitation of Gorbi Zlata Palz directly... We were there, we know why the results was as it is... It has no sence to make something top secret because there is really nothing to hide...

ahhh Margo! I don't remember that I would write name of dogs/ breeders. And I haven't thinking about Gorbi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The problem is with his owner and not with the dogs!
And I could write about other dogs...but I won't do it in an open forum.....and I won't do it becase not this is the topic : how could we write a lot of bad things about others.
So please go back to the bonitacion beside takeing personality. Nobody was writing about kennels.breeders, dogs just you.

We want to discuss about bonitacio and not fighting with each other. So please mixing the shit!


Edit

[massimo]

Originally Posted by Margo

Let's stop play the game "Quest which dog I mean" It makes more things easier.... and make the air more clear...
Let say it open and ask Michael questions about the bonitation of Gorbi Zlata Palz directly... We were there, we know why the results was as it is... It has no sence to make something top secret because there is really nothing to hide...

No need to ask Michael, I was there and can tell anybody, it's no secret.
And please do NOT imagine things as they are not.
Two bonitations were made to quite nervous and untouchable dogs.
Geryon z Peronowki and Gorbi Zlata Palz.
Geryon z Peronowki had Muzzle and needed 2 people (owner and breeder) to hold him and distract him during measurements.
The owner alone (in this case Daiva) was not able to make him be measured.

Gorbi Zlata Palz same thing...the owner wasn't even able to PUT the muzzle on him.
But the breeder (Micheal) took the dog, went away and returned after a few minutes with a brand new dog. No muzzle was anymore necessary.
It was like a statue and Sona could do ANYTHING she wanted.
No violence was done to the dog, it was just shown to the dog that he is NOT the boss and he CANNOT do anything he wants.
In fact Gorbi didn't have his tail under his belly, he wasn't in terror as dogs are when they are hit.
I do the same to Oliver so I know very well. And I would NEVER be violent to one of my dogs, I prefer if you cut my hands off.
If anybody on this site had a puppy (i wonder...) they know very well what it means to show the puppy who is the boss.
Gorbi's behaviour was not his real nature.
I suppose also Geryon's behaviour is NOT his real nature, but both are somehow caused by their owners.
Massimo

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Hanka

To Vaiva:
(In note you can read open lips, but in real it is not Really open lips, but only very little. It is just like: "danger-children of this dogs can have open lips when somebody will combinate two dogs with this small mistake".

Yes, that is why we need to know these notes. If I have to go to a male for thousands kilometres, I would like to know, what he has in "notes" first

Do it Vaiva, make oficial club in your country (for wolfdogs), keep conditions for breeding and "our" breed will be better.

As wolfin allready mentioned, we do have an official breed club in Lithuania and in fact it is so easy to know everything about any dog here, because only 17 wolfdogs live in Lithuania

[Margo]

Originally Posted by jasmine

Margo, My question was not against you or your dog(s)! I was just wondering..............

Edith - if something has four legs, is barking like a dog and looking like a dog it IS a DOG....

I hope you understand if I will not believe you it is not personal... I really will not believe that person which bred so many dogs and is insider in this breed for a long time never checked the list of OWN dogs and didn't saw that Falco passed bonitation although he is 64 cm... I do not believe you never checked the list of Slovak stud dogs where since YEARS you can see Iran which is 64 cm and already had puppies by such famous Slovak kennels like Radov dvor or spod Ďumbiera....
So I'm really astonished that you "discovered" the problem first right now...

Originally Posted by jasmine

PS: I looked through the studdog list and I couldn't find dogs under the standard with P1 and/or P3 code. But maybe it is my fault.........

Please read the words of Martine:

Originally Posted by loco

I have seen more dogs under the breed standard in the database .
And do have bonitation and claimed that they are breedable, and the bonitation was not in Poland .

The list is long but few example just for you:
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/3588
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/1360
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/745
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/2851
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/2822