Mixes: Passo del lupo (Italy)

[leila]

as I can understand it, the admin put all this symbols to dogs, who come from breedings from mix-kennels, where are not standard pupps born - you can see the mixes in them and also theire parents... all crying wolf pupps born after 2004 are there and some french kennels... the reason is because of the "red" pupps", because of some tests, realy not csw standard look (i mean not with falust, but the "other wolf" look)... its because of the reason to stop inserting mixes into pure breed.
im sorry for all of the owners, who have such dogs and it ruins theire breeding. but on the other hand, I can understand, that this is a way (radical way), to show all the mixes... but I must write also, that this is showing on someone without any proof (in some cases)... I wish, all the breeders, who breed such dogs, made some tests (i mean the crying wolf, de la louve blanche,...) so there are no doupts anymore. the cooperation with breeders is the way... if they are pure, as they say, there is no problem (or should not be) to make some tests... and it will clear everything... just a test. if the costs are problem, I would say only one - you get so much money for selling such "pure and wolfy" pupps, that this price of test is nothing.

[Martab]

thank you Ieila, but my dog and both the parents of my dog DO have DNA test deposited. This means that the test is useless, because my dog is nevertheless marked as (_!_), and that there is NO WAY of erasing it

[leila]

now I understand you, ou are right. but you know, this is a private server... the admin can do, what he wants. but if the dogs have tests, then he should realy get of the symbol.

[Martab]

Originally Posted by leila

this is a private server... the admin can do, what he wants

You are right, I know it is like this.
But then I -as a "private person" - feel free to start any legal action I wish to carry out against what I assume to be a defamation through a public web site
But given that I'd prefer to spend my money and my time otherwise....I insist for the Admin to answer and correct wrong data

This is not a jungle, and Admin is not The King Of The Breed... it should be a space where people share information according to rules which must be (I don't expect..."agreed together in harmony", but at least) predictable and understandable!

PS: Leila I quoted you but I understood we are saying the same thing, I repeated it only because admin instead of answering mixed several posts from different TDs

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Martab

thank you Ieila, but my dog and both the parents of my dog DO have DNA test deposited. This means that the test is useless, because my dog is nevertheless marked as (_!_), and that there is NO WAY of erasing it

No one knows yet what does mean the symbols (_!_) and (_?_), if your dog have DNA test also as its parents, till the imported dogs from SK and CZ, then, probably the symbol (_!_) does not mean that he is a possible mix, but that he comes from a breeder who breed and agree with mixes (??).
We can assume then that the (_?_) are dogs without DNA test coming from suspicious kennels - so, the mixes till it be proved the contrary by DNA test.

[Martab]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

No one knows yet what does mean the symbols (_!_) and (_?_)

Someone did put it according to some criteria! And this someone (the Admin, I imagine) must explain it..it's absurd that we are here trying to interpret a thing that isn't a bug in the database, but the result of someone's decision...
As for the kennel, my dog already had written that came from "Passo del Lupo horrible breeder non FCI mis sarlosish creatures.....etc etc", but here is very different, the single dog is indicated ad "not suitable for breeding", and there must be a reason which is different from the breeder, also beacuse other Passo Del Lupo Crying Wolf etc....are not (_!_) even though they come from the same breeder

[Nebulosa]

Someone did put it, and for sure it was Admin because he is the only one who have acess to the database, when something new is added to the database, Admin post in a hidden forum what does it mean and ask all moderators to translate it to their own languages and add it in each forum.
It didn't happen yet what make us think that Admin was having problems enough and have had no time to post it at the moment.
Also there is the possibility of the informations be wrong, as there was an server crash not long ago which messed up with several informations.
I was searching for more dogs with the symbol (_!_) and I found Fallko Kollarov dvor with this mark, i'm quite sure he isn't a mix, then we really need to wait Admin explain what does it mean.


PS: Out of my fertile imagination, for me this (_!_) will be ever a butt!

[Martab]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

PS: Out of my fertile imagination, for me this (_!_) will be ever a butt!

that's it!

[Martab]

Margo, you know why my dog is (_!_)?

[Rona]

Originally Posted by loco

I thought the rule is still true, that one is not guilty until proven guilty.
But, correct me if I'm wrong.

1. That's why if Paula, Margo or whoever is guilty of being Admin, the person who blames them should prove it. Or may be you are for double standards?

2. http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...4&postcount=15
Any constructive propositions as to how to obtain the proofs?

BTW where did you find information that the mark means the dog or a breeder is guilty of anything?

In my understanding it only marks kennels that refuse to cooperate towards clearing the mess connected with mixbreeding...

[loco]

So, that is what I say...............

Originally Posted by loco

I thought the rule is still true, that one is not guilty until proven guilty.
But, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by leila

this is showing on someone without any proof (in some cases)....

I agree, this is a problem...

However, nobody seems to have even a trace of idea how to obtain the proofs. If the dogs are under their owners' custody all the time, the latter refuse to test them, giggle right into the faces of all who care about the breed, and cynically repeat "proofs, please, proofs", what can be done?!

Maybe somebody knows how to obtain the key dogs' blood against their owners' will, and collect the proofs? Employ a veterinary mafia? Hire kynological detectives? Or better... vet-burglers () who will break into the kennels and steal the dogs for half an hour Maybe Admin should hire MI5 or beg UFO for help? Anybody has more realistic suggestions?

Alternative solution is to do nothing and wait long enough for all the dogs whose blood could help solve the problem pass away.

It's not against you, Martab; but without cooperation, solidarity, join efforts of all caring, affected and non-affected owners and breeders the problem will never be solved. If people keep repeating "why me, my dogs are OK, I have nothing to do with it" very soon there will hardly be any pure vlcaks. In this case waiting is like waiting for Godot!

Instead of moaning and accusing the Admin, Margo or Santa Claus, or whoever of whatever I suggest all owners and breeders should start acting immediately to sort the mess out asap.

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Rona

Instead of moaning and accusing the Admin, Margo or Santa Claus, or whoever of whatever I suggest all owners and breeders should start acting immediately to sort the mess out asap.

Exactly, the owners should contact their breeders and ask them to check the dogs instead of attacking people, who just try to save the breed from mixes...

[Martab]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Exactly, the owners should contact their breeders and ask them to check the dogs instead of attacking people, who just try to save the breed from mixes...

I insist: this is not the solution, because MY DOG HAS THE DNA TEST, HIS PARENTS HAVE DNA TEST, AND HE IS STILL (_!_)

[Rona]

Admin, why don't you change the "-!-" into "- -"
Let's see what happens then

I really don't understand why people are reacting so badly! Especially those who hate wolfdog.org so much! Does the sign make your dog different? Less beautiful or less obedient? If you know what animal you have at home, why be bothered by any silly marks?

If this could help the breed, I'd welcome as many signs at my dogs name as possible.

[Martab]

Rona, please admit that is is a bit arrogant and despothic to do this… for me it's clear he wanted to say only this

"Where is it written dogs are suspicious of anything? " ?!??!!

Database say that they are "not any more suitable for breeding"…even though they have all tests needed and much much more than a lot of "suitable for breeding" dogs without bonitance etc etc etc... more "suspicious" of that!

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Martab

Rona, please admit that is is a bit arrogant and despothic to do this…

I told you I didn't understand why somebody could get so excited about some silly signs. There are dogs dying of ill-treatment, pseudo breeders/ businessmen/ puppy millers destroying the work of generations of honest people and breed lovers and people stay indifferent, don't care, but a little -!- , the meaning of which has never been clearly explained, makes them levitate! Sorry, but to me this is absurd!

Originally Posted by Martab

for me it's clear he wanted to say only this

I don't know what he wanted to say, but I know what he said. Even if we have different views and discuss them strongly here - there is no need to use such language and such metaphors! There are limits to insensivity!

[Navarre]

I think we all are waiting for an answer from Admin.
The point is'nt only the symbol but the fact that some dog aren't anymore "approved for breeding".

In the case of Glock Arian...you may dislike the dog, you may dislike the owner, you may dislike the breeder (I too) but he is for sure a real CSW, being from well known blood lines, he made exibitions, bonitace, hd, dna, working tests etc.

With him there are many other owners with the same problem ... not saying that wolfdog.org should be "democratic" (might be too difficult for people of Eastern Europe), but RULES are necessary and these rules should be well known by users and must be valid for everyone, to maintain credibility.