what can be done about 'misinterpretation in the uk

[pixie]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

as you guys know,there are not many pure csv's and swh in the uk but still there are some.....the breed (csv)is not established in its own right and many people have not met a pure...but quite a few have met crosses(mixes)and own them....its become more and more apparent that some of these 'owners' call their dogs pure or vlcaks! ...when pushed and asked they explain what breed/types are in their dogs..so they do know that they do not own pure

i also know of a few dogs that were bought as pure and sold on as pure(not directly from the breeder) yet one look at the dog shows they are not(and also where they were originally bred)so these people do not even know what a wd should even look like let alone act like!

i feel its very damaging to the breed as these are not representatives of the BREED yet are being 'passed off' as such...but what can be done?...i fear not alot

My Girl was bought as pure and can be traced through WD but because of the CW thing we can never really be sure, I believe she is pure and think that Lee ( breeder) sold her in good faith, but in all honesty it is when we get back to the european breeder (CW) that there are doubts

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by pixie

My Girl was bought as pure and can be traced through WD but because of the CW thing we can never really be sure, I believe she is pure and think that Lee ( breeder) sold her in good faith, but in all honesty it is when we get back to the european breeder (CW) that there are doubts

u missed the point really chris,im not saying that...its people buying crosses of these dogs KNOWING they are crosses but telling people that do not know any better they are pure.

[pixie]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

u missed the point really chris,im not saying that...its people buying crosses of these dogs KNOWING they are crosses but telling people that do not know any better they are pure.

Sorry i understand now, I was just saying it can go back further than owners, breeder to breeders of the grandparents etc

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by pixie

Sorry i understand now, I was just saying it can go back further than owners, breeder to breeders of the grandparents etc

Was it ever determined if Brix Bix was pure or not? I know originally with Paul's litters there was some question: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9711

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

Was it ever determined if Brix Bix was pure or not? I know originally with Paul's litters there was some question: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9711

is that meant as a dig?

i was referring to the crossbreeds that are n.i or gsd mixes that the breeders confirm as such

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

is that meant as a dig?

i was referring to the crossbreeds that are n.i or gsd mixes that the breeders confirm as such

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood the question too then.

I thought you were talking about dogs with fake pedigrees or so.

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

is that meant as a dig?

i was referring to the crossbreeds that are n.i or gsd mixes that the breeders confirm as such

No, not a dig at all. Two of Andre's puppies - Jorja and Raider - were (according to the wolfdog.org database, stemming from the info on forum member "neesk") reportedly living in the US. Given the situation with Paul, de Louba Tar, etc. - and the lack of transparency/honesty, I became quite interested (back in 2008...) in the fact that someone had imported "suspicious pedigree" dogs - and what it might mean for our breed in the US (there are also lines in those breedings which must be carefully considered for health, especially HD). I think the info about the dogs living in the US might actually be wrong...at some point "neesk" and user "malgor" were merged into one on the forum, but it's hard to say.

In any case, I am quite serious in wondering if the questioning of Brix Bis's pedigree was ever resolved. He is clearly a fundamental dog in the breed for the UK as it exists today - should the breed become accepted with the KC, I suspect many Americans (given the fear of language barriers) will try to import from the UK. The direction owners/breeders in the UK decide to go could have an impact for the breed here as well.

Does the KC have a policy on DNA profiling of imported dogs? The AKC requires all imported dogs to be DNA profiled before registering a litter from them - if it is the same with the KC, it would be tricky to register even pure dogs if the initially imported dogs were deceased or unavailable (and unable to be profiled). Our club has requested the AKC to create mandatory DNA profiling for domestically bred CSVs as well...but we shall see. Now we must deal with the lack of reliability of CW dogs here...it's a shame how innocent people must be left picking up the pieces from lies of other breeders.

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

No, not a dig at all. Two of Andre's puppies - Jorja and Raider - were (according to the wolfdog.org database, stemming from the info on forum member "neesk") reportedly living in the US. Given the situation with Paul, de Louba Tar, etc. - and the lack of transparency/honesty, I became quite interested (back in 2008...) in the fact that someone had imported "suspicious pedigree" dogs - and what it might mean for our breed in the US (there are also lines in those breedings which must be carefully considered for health, especially HD). I think the info about the dogs living in the US might actually be wrong...at some point "neesk" and user "malgor" were merged into one on the forum, but it's hard to say.

In any case, I am quite serious in wondering if the questioning of Brix Bis's pedigree was ever resolved. He is clearly a fundamental dog in the breed for the UK as it exists today - should the breed become accepted with the KC, I suspect many Americans (given the fear of language barriers) will try to import from the UK. The direction owners/breeders in the UK decide to go could have an impact for the breed here as well.

Does the KC have a policy on DNA profiling of imported dogs? The AKC requires all imported dogs to be DNA profiled before registering a litter from them - if it is the same with the KC, it would be tricky to register even pure dogs if the initially imported dogs were deceased or unavailable (and unable to be profiled). Our club has requested the AKC to create mandatory DNA profiling for domestically bred CSVs as well...but we shall see. Now we must deal with the lack of reliability of CW dogs here...it's a shame how innocent people must be left picking up the pieces from lies of other breeders.

thanks marcy for ur reply.

no the kc themselves do not require dna,they require the 'pedigree' but i would say the way forward would be to do it regardless(dna).

to be fair..the non fci dogs that are here may or may not be able to be registered...wont make me love my boy any the less

without sounding 'bitchy' i would worry more about the cw dogs we have here more than my own dogs line.(for now)

...maybe this should be on a different thread?

[kalcon]

Originally Posted by pixie

My Girl was bought as pure and can be traced through WD but because of the CW thing we can never really be sure, I believe she is pure and think that Lee ( breeder) sold her in good faith, but in all honesty it is when we get back to the european breeder (CW) that there are doubts

if you purchased a czech wolfdog of lee church then it is a pure bred wolfdog 100% but you may have health issues to deal with in the future, what ever you need to hip test,eye test and dm test,,,,,,,,,

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by kalcon

if you purchased a czech wolfdog of lee church then it is a pure bred wolfdog 100% but you may have health issues to deal with in the future, what ever you need to hip test,eye test and dm test,,,,,,,,,

Wow, so you have solved the mystery of CW's red dogs, then?

[kalcon]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

Wow, so you have solved the mystery of CW's red dogs, then?

i know where they came from if thats what you mean, but as u are clever like the other dafts on this site then work it out for yourself, heres a clu, its to do with colouration genetics, bit like the white lady in USA that had twins one black one white same father, have look at old GSD lines as well,,,,, then go to the saarloos and work out how they became red as well,,,,,,, dooh...........i dont believe you people can not work this out,,,,,,very dissapointed that the normal know it all boofs have not worked it out yet,,,,,,,,

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by kalcon

i know where they came from if thats what you mean, but as u are clever like the other dafts on this site then work it out for yourself, heres a clu, its to do with colouration genetics, bit like the white lady in USA that had twins one black one white same father, have look at old GSD lines as well,,,,, then go to the saarloos and work out how they became red as well,,,,,,, dooh...........i dont believe you people can not work this out,,,,,,very dissapointed that the normal know it all boofs have not worked it out yet,,,,,,,,

Unfortunately, color genetics have already been thoroughly discussed on an older thread but I can link you if you need. As Saarloos do not share the same breed heritage as csv, it makes sense why saarloos may be red but not csv.

I would like to learn more about the breed, so I try to live with, train, read about, mentor under, and experience the breed as much as I can. And refrain from simply becoming a producer with an over inflated sense of knowledge just because I've managed to put two dogs of opposite sexes together a few times. Thank you for your concern!

[kalcon]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

Wow, so you have solved the mystery of CW's red dogs, then?

learn about this breed, then learn about genetics, lets see if you can tell us all how the white saarloos came about and dont go down the lines x bred because it wasnt..........

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by kalcon

if you purchased a czech wolfdog of lee church then it is a pure bred wolfdog 100% but you may have health issues to deal with in the future, what ever you need to hip test,eye test and dm test,,,,,,,,,

yes.... the hips perchance?

[GalomyOak]

,,,,,,,,stop,,,,,with,,,,,,,the,,,,,,commas,,,,,,a lready,,,,,,! But,,,,,a,,,,,,period,,,,,,,or,,,,,,,two,,,,,,woul d,,,,,,be,,,,,,,nice...

[pixie]

Originally Posted by kalcon

if you purchased a czech wolfdog of lee church then it is a pure bred wolfdog 100% but you may have health issues to deal with in the future, what ever you need to hip test,eye test and dm test,,,,,,,,,

I will test her for peace of mind, and i 100% believe she is pure, but thanks anyway