Pollux needs a new home (Florida - USA)

[GalomyOak]

I don't think Pollux was ever selected to be a service dog. The lady who originally imported him (with warnings from me, Ed, and Sara against rushing, and how some CSVs just weren't cut out for this type training) intended to train him in Schutzhund/IPO type work. Sara originally purchased Luna from me, with the possibility to use her for service, conformation, and whatever type of training suited her (Luna does herding, obedience, a little protection, and she is also in the training phases of service work - and doing well, from what I understand) - but mostly as a loved pet, which she is. Sara, while concerned, was excited for her friend buying a puppy and tried to support her through the problems she had with Pollux from the early days; I don't imagine she ever thought Pollux's owner - her friend - someone who works with dogs, would do this to Pollux, it's very disappointing on many levels. I think Ed and Sara, feeling bad for Pollux, wished to get Pollux in as good a place as they could for his eventual "forever home" - with training, socialization and love. At the same time, Sara depends on her dogs for...well, her life. I think she recognizes that she can't give Pollux all that he needs in her home, living only as a pet beside the dog(s) she currently uses for service work, as well as the old retired ones (they don't live on a huge farm where they can keep ten dogs outside - all of their pets live in their house). I think now she wants to make sure he does go somewhere appropriate to his needs, where he can live inside as a much loved pet and companion, without huge training expectations, for the rest of his life.

It is an unfortunate situation, not one that I am happy about...and I do wish breeders in Europe would think very, very carefully before sending a dog to someone far away who they have never met, or that has no reference, at the very least, from an experienced CSV owner. Crying Wolf is definitely not the only breeder who is "guilty" of this. We have CSVs on this side of the world from Germany, Belgium, Lithuania, Czech Rep., Slovakia, Italy...all sent "blindly". I also wish new owners would go to see where and how their puppies are really raised, in what conditions, how the parents are, and of course, look at lineage. I think most new owners don't realize how important these things are for CSVs, maybe even more than other breeds. I feel certain that Pollux is not the first CSV with the need to be rehomed as an older dog ...Ed is maybe just one of the more honest, "open" and vocal people to discuss this on the forum.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Of course, these words will not change the situation of Pollux - but maybe other people will read it before buying a "future service dog" from a farm, just because "it looks sooooo beautiful"...

That is Pollux's savin grace - he's gorgeous. Physically he's striking.

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

I don't think Pollux was ever selected to be a service dog. The lady who originally imported him (with warnings from me, Ed, and Sara against rushing, and how some CSVs just weren't cut out for this type training) intended to train him in Schutzhund/IPO type work.

Much to our surprise he enjoys "the game" out on the schutzhund field. I'm even woring on getting him to bark on command and me might, just might, be able to do a bark and hold someday.

Sara originally purchased Luna from me, with the possibility to use her for service, conformation, and whatever type of training suited her (Luna does herding, obedience, a little protection, and she is also in the training phases of service work - and doing well, from what I understand) - but mostly as a loved pet, which she is.

Luna not only exceeded our expectations with her SD training, she far exceeded our wildest dreams, she's doing great and we think she might actually enjoy it, although she won't admit it. SHe did enjoy Cape Canaveral and Disney last month, though!

I feel certain that Pollux is not the first CSV with the need to be rehomed as an older dog

Older? He's only 15 months!

[tupacs2legs]

imo 15 months is young in a breed such as this,and a difficult time for a young male that could be going through another 'fear stage' (and teenage)as well as changing homes

[draggar]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

imo 15 months is young in a breed such as this,and a difficult time for a young male that could be going through another 'fear stage' (and teenage)as well as changing homes

Luna went though a regression (for the lack of a better term) around 12-14 months. Pollux seemed to go though the same at the same age, we think he went out of it about a month ago.

The regression wasn't fun with either but they both came out a better dog. We're writing it off as part of the maturing process.

[yukidomari]

How important to you is it that he stay in proximity for your needs?

Surely it can't be so hard to find a nice home for a free dog of a young age and a rare breed somewhere in the USA (or even beyond).

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by draggar

The regression wasn't fun with either but they both came out a better dog. We're writing it off as part of the maturing process.

That was what i did say Do not worry it will pass

Very best regards / Mikael

[GalomyOak]

I didn't speak of Lithuania (or any country, or breeder) in a negative reference. In fact, my first dog was sent to me - blindly - and I would hardly say it was a negative experience. The vast majority aren't negative experiences, and the new owners love their dog for the rest of it's life. I only meant that should a time come that a dog does need to be rehomed, it is very difficult to fix the problem as a breeder across an ocean. I have helped in two situations so far - one in the US, one in Canada. In one case, the breeder was able to arrange for the young dog/puppy to return to Europe. In the other case, I worked with the breeder to find a suitable home (with someone who already owned a CSV) in another state. I know of another case, many years ago, in which a lady (from the Czech Rep., married to an American man) imported a CSV, from a respected kennel, and nice breeding in CZ, and soon determined the young female was "too wolflike" for her family once she had small children. She had spent, as I understand, a lot of time in Europe around the breed. This dog was not so fortunate...I think it was forced across the rainbow bridge.

My point is, breeders must make a careful decision about how far is too far to rescue a dog if it needs help. They also need to think about how they will accomplish this, especially if they become on bad terms with the new owner. I think mistakes can be made to sell a puppy, regardless of distance, what country the person is from, whether someone meets, or maybe even "knows" the new owner - or maybe even a death of the owner, or accident, or other such things. A good breeder should be willing to travel to help and take back the dog. Maybe a trip to Spain, or even Israel, or the UK, or who knows is possible to rescue a dog. But it becomes even more difficult across an ocean. It was my only point.

[Gypsy Wolf]

I do feel like I need to jump in here and perhaps clarify the situation. I got Luna from Marcy KNOWING the commitment it takes to raise a dog - Service Dog or not - and KNOWING what my limits are when it comes to how many dogs I can manage in my home.
My friend saw Luna and how amazing she is and wanted one of her own NOW. So yes, despite all of our telling her to take her time and research, she decided on Pollux.
In the beginning everything was fine and as she has been training dogs for years, I figured it was the perfect placement - yes, he might be different that she was used to but challenges teach us, right?
Well, after a while, she decided she was not interested in working with him any longer and he was relegated to a kennel in the back yard.
That is where we came in - I suggested we take him for a while and work with him - FOR A WHILE. I felt responsible for him as I had introduced my friend to the breed and if I could work with him and help him, he could go back to her better off.
So he came into our home and I worked him like we work any of our other dogs - some Service Work, some Schutzhund, some Conformation training, etc.
He has made some huge strides under our care and training and he is an amazing dog - every achievement makes me proud. But Pollux is not our dog, I have all the dogs I can handle on my own. I WISH I had the time, room, etc., to keep him ourselves, but we don't, and it isn't fair to my other dogs, either.
There is a saying here "no good deed goes unpunished" and it's painfully true here - we are trying to do our best by a dog that is not even ours and we are getting attacked for it.
It's not our mess to clean up, but he has fallen into our lap and we want to do what is fair for him.
Fair for him would be a home where his owners have more time than I do to work him through his issues.
At least I will know, personally, where he will go... in someone else's hands, I have no idea where he might be placed.
We are Pollux's foster home - we have plenty of experience being "interim" homes for rescue dogs, so your support would be more appreciated than your criticism. We are trying to improve his home situation - don't you think we feel awful having seen his situation deteriorate? I didn't encourage my friend's interest in the breed in order to create a problem - obviously had I any inkling of what would happen, I wouldn't have helped her find him in the first place... but she likely would've found another one on her own, and becasue I feel I am a steward of the breed, it is my duty to try and help a vlcak in need. So go ahead and criticize me if you want, but ask yourselves what you would do in my place...

[Tazer]

Good to read you're in no rush and will keep him until the right home is found.

Again good luck finding him his forever home.

Taz

[draggar]

We have found him a home and it looks like the details have been worked out. An animal wrangler in California contacted us about him (I guess he was in touch with Pollux's breeder who referred us to him).

We confirmed who he is with our talet agent. He lives on 10+ acres of property, has a staff to work with the dogs, and has other dogs that Pollux will be able to run around and play with.

This animal wranger is also migrating from wolf hybrids to vlcaks due to increasingly strict wolf hybrid laws across the USA. APparently he has some big deals in the works to so we'll see if Pollux makes it to the big screen or not.

[yukidomari]

Congrats to Pollux!


Pollux will be close to his sister? Does California now have the most Vlcaks in the states? Partha and two other Vlcaks are just a bit south of us in San Diego.

There is a Vlcak from Israel here in Los Angeles too, who goes to our same dog park.

Originally Posted by draggar

APparently he has some big deals in the works to so we'll see if Pollux makes it to the big screen or not.

Hope not! Screen time in the states has never meant well for any breed..

Congratulations again to Pollux!

Do you know if he will be in North California or South California? I think there was a lady interested in meeting a Vlcak in North California, but I don't know of any there.

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by draggar

We have found him a home and it looks like the details have been worked out. An animal wrangler in California contacted us about him (I guess he was in touch with Pollux's breeder who referred us to him).

We confirmed who he is with our talet agent. He lives on 10+ acres of property, has a staff to work with the dogs, and has other dogs that Pollux will be able to run around and play with.

This animal wranger is also migrating from wolf hybrids to vlcaks due to increasingly strict wolf hybrid laws across the USA. APparently he has some big deals in the works to so we'll see if Pollux makes it to the big screen or not.

Are you referring to the African-American gentleman (can't remember his name)? I received an inquiry from him a few weeks back (I didn't respond). Are you planning to neuter Pollux - just to 100% prevent him from being mixed?

[Rona]

Originally Posted by draggar

We have found him a home and it looks like the details have been worked out. An animal wrangler in California contacted us about him (I guess he was in touch with Pollux's breeder who referred us to him)..

A wrangler? Do you mean a person who catches stray animals?

[Priska182]

Originally Posted by draggar

We have found him a home and it looks like the details have been worked out. An animal wrangler in California contacted us about him (I guess he was in touch with Pollux's breeder who referred us to him).

We confirmed who he is with our talet agent. He lives on 10+ acres of property, has a staff to work with the dogs, and has other dogs that Pollux will be able to run around and play with.

This animal wranger is also migrating from wolf hybrids to vlcaks due to increasingly strict wolf hybrid laws across the USA. APparently he has some big deals in the works to so we'll see if Pollux makes it to the big screen or not.

Congratulations! I'm really glad form him

[Czertice]

Originally Posted by draggar

We have found him a home and it looks like the details have been worked out. An animal wrangler in California contacted us about him (I guess he was in touch with Pollux's breeder who referred us to him).

We confirmed who he is with our talet agent. He lives on 10+ acres of property, has a staff to work with the dogs, and has other dogs that Pollux will be able to run around and play with.

This animal wranger is also migrating from wolf hybrids to vlcaks due to increasingly strict wolf hybrid laws across the USA. APparently he has some big deals in the works to so we'll see if Pollux makes it to the big screen or not.

Congratulations! I'll definitely support Pollux the new movie star;]

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by draggar

We have found him a home and it looks like the details have been worked out. An animal wrangler in California contacted us about him (I guess he was in touch with Pollux's breeder who referred us to him).

We confirmed who he is with our talet agent. He lives on 10+ acres of property, has a staff to work with the dogs, and has other dogs that Pollux will be able to run around and play with.

This animal wranger is also migrating from wolf hybrids to vlcaks due to increasingly strict wolf hybrid laws across the USA. APparently he has some big deals in the works to so we'll see if Pollux makes it to the big screen or not.

People, what are all these congratulations about???
So the dog has a new owner, who will own him together with many other dogs!!! I am sure that if Pollux were a GSD or some other "non-exotic" dog breed, he would not be so interesting for this person! Wolfdog needs a HOME, not a person just to feed and train him! He needs someone to pet him, to talk to him, to simply LOVE him...

Sorry, but this is tragic, I don't understand this. I hope you will still neuter Pollux.

Tfu, I hope breeders here in Europe will start thinking before selling puppies to USA Pollux example is more than enought... I am sorry for all these nice people who own, love, breed CSV in USA, but... this case is.. scary...

[tupacs2legs]

Guess I am in the minority here....so Pollux is being sold to breed from?

The dogs that were 'aquired' for game of thrones from here ,most of them ended up in rescue centres.....given up to 'GOF' because they were unwanted and surplus to their breeders!!!

[Rona]

Originally Posted by draggar

That is Pollux's savin grace - he's gorgeous. Physically he's striking.

Could you post any photos of him? No that I doubt about it, but a photo would "materialize" him, and maybe increase his chances for a good permanent home

I'd also put him in the section "Adult CSV looking for new homes" This thread will drop at some point and there are new people coming to this site.

Originally Posted by draggar

Much to our surprise he enjoys "the game" out on the schutzhund field. I'm even woring on getting him to bark on command and me might, just might, be able to do a bark and hold someday.

I'm not a specialist in training, least of all in schutzhund, but from people who have trained their dogs and from what I read on the Polish WD (written by a specialist trainer in this sport) I've understood it's suitable for self-confident dogs with even temperament. The dog should undergo all stages of the training and learn not only to hold/attack, but also to control itself. Otherwise, especially when young, it may get even more confused and unpredictable. Not knowing the future of Pollux, what kind of family he'll stay with and where he will live, don't you think it might be a bit risky to start such kind of training at his 'sensitive age'? CSV mature between they're 2,5-3.
Just recently I've heard of a nice young vlcak that started schutzhund trainings with his owner, but didn't "finish the course" . Later he was adopted by another family (it was out of life necessity, the owner was devastated she had to part with him). Probably the two factors combined caused that in new situtations he started 'playing the schutzhund game' in the street with accidental pedestrians, which he never did before the trainings

I also think that CSVs being quiet creatures is their great asset for many owners (including myself). What's the point in teaching him barking if you don't know his new owner's prefereneces?

Don't treat this as criticizm, as I know little about schutzhund. These are just a few reflections based on common sense and on reading you post .

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by Rona

I also think that CSVs being quiet creatures is their great asset for many owners (including myself). What's the point in teaching him barking if you don't know his new owner's prefereneces?

I wish someone would convince my dogs of this! I taught my female to "speak" on command...but mostly just so I could also teach her a gentle command to be quiet. If she gets jealous, or sees a squirrel, or there is a visitor...like all strong women, she has no problem speaking her mind! And being a CSV, she decided to teach all of my other dogs to...talk.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Rona

Could you post any photos of him? No that I doubt about it, but a photo would "materialize" him, and maybe increase his chances for a good permanent home

I'd also put him in the section "Adult CSV looking for new homes" This thread will drop at some point and there are new people coming to this site.

Here are some (not so good) pictures (Pucktures?) we took of him the other day:

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o...r/pets/Pollux/

I'm not a specialist in training, least of all in schutzhund, but from people who have trained their dogs and from what I read on the Polish WD (written by a specialist trainer in this sport) I've understood it's suitable for self-confident dogs with even temperament. The dog should undergo all stages of the training and learn not only to hold/attack, but also to control itself. Otherwise, especially when young, it may get even more confused and unpredictable. Not knowing the future of Pollux, what kind of family he'll stay with and where he will live, don't you think it might be a bit risky to start such kind of training at his 'sensitive age'? CSV mature between they're 2,5-3.

Right now he is in the full "gape" aspect of it. To him the sleeve is a toy and he wants the toy (he's on a padded puppy sleeve now). He gets the toy, he runs around with it, and then he drops it (and on occasion rolls around on it). The helper gets the sleeve, taunts him with it, and then the game starts over again. He's not serious with it at all, to him it is just playtime with him, me, and the helper.

Just recently I've heard of a nice young vlcak that started schutzhund trainings with his owner, but didn't "finish the course" . Later he was adopted by another family (it was out of life necessity, the owner was devastated she had to part with him). Probably the two factors combined caused that in new situtations he started 'playing the schutzhund game' in the street with accidental pedestrians, which he never did before the trainings

IMO the dog didn't have the right training, or at least the wrong training at the wrong time. Pollux hasn't done any "protection" part of it and he doesn't see it as protection - he just sees it as playing. Also, any good schutzhund dog should know when to "turn it on" and when not to, it seems this dog did not.

Our club is very good and non-political (very few of those here in the USA). They are not DVG or USA affiliated (hence no politics) and their primary focus is on the dog. I've seen clubs try to ruin dogs just so they can justify their own methods and get more $$$ for training and others just flat out refuse dogs into their club that aren't good (or just insult the dog until the owners leave).

I also think that CSVs being quiet creatures is their great asset for many owners (including myself). What's the point in teaching him barking if you don't know his new owner's prefereneces?

Don't treat this as criticizm, as I know little about schutzhund. These are just a few reflections based on common sense and on reading you post .

Quiet? Vlcaks are a quiet breed? You've never met our Luna. Pollux, though, I'm trying to train him to bark on command. He never barks unless he sees other dogs (like Luna) go running past his crate and he wants to come out to play or when he and Luna are playing a lot, then they get chatty. Other than that, he's very quiet.