Pollux needs a new home (Florida - USA)

Originally Posted by yukidomari

What is Pollux 'unpredictable' about?

I know Draggar's already talked about this, but I just want to point out that while it's very sad that something as "small" as a dog being skittish or reserved on a leash can be a problem, with something as important as actual work for a dog, it's enough to wash a dog out of a program entirely. Of course you only hear stories of fantastic dogs helping the blind, disabled, etc, that have perfect temperaments and all that, but what you DON'T typically see are the number of dogs that wash out of those programs at various stages. Once it's known that a dog won't be able to be used as a reliable service dog, larger organizations have rescue systems in place with waiting lists a mile long to adopt the dogs that don't make it. This case is similar, only it's just one family doing the work, so they don't have a network already in place with homes lined up around the corner. It takes a really strong character in a dog to be able to work all day long and take everything in stride, and while I'm sure Pollux will make a fantastic pet, he obviously would be miserable if he were asked to work all day.

I'm sorry you guys are having to rehome Pollux, and I wish there were a way I could help! If situations were different here, and I lived closer, I would snatch him up in a heartbeat, but unfortunately, it's just impossible for us to take on another dog right now. Good luck finding him a good home!

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Vicky

I know Draggar's already talked about this, but I just want to point out that while it's very sad that something as "small" as a dog being skittish or reserved on a leash can be a problem, with something as important as actual work for a dog, it's enough to wash a dog out of a program entirely. Of course you only hear stories of fantastic dogs helping the blind, disabled, etc, that have perfect temperaments and all that, but what you DON'T typically see are the number of dogs that wash out of those programs at various stages. Once it's known that a dog won't be able to be used as a reliable service dog, larger organizations have rescue systems in place with waiting lists a mile long to adopt the dogs that don't make it. This case is similar, only it's just one family doing the work, so they don't have a network already in place with homes lined up around the corner. It takes a really strong character in a dog to be able to work all day long and take everything in stride, and while I'm sure Pollux will make a fantastic pet, he obviously would be miserable if he were asked to work all day.

Oh, sure, but if you are planing to have just a servise dog (with a possibility to give him away, if he or she won't be suitable for this kind of work), maybe you should FIRST choose another breed! CsW are known to be "one person's dog", the change of the owners could be more difficult for them, etc.
SECOND - if you still want a CsW to be a servise dog, please, spend some time to study the lineages, to contact various breeders in various countries, etc. Just buying a puppy from the first one who agrees to sell it to you in this case is a Very Bad Idea.
Of course, these words will not change the situation of Pollux - but maybe other people will read it before buying a "future service dog" from a farm, just because "it looks sooooo beautiful"...

[GalomyOak]

I don't think Pollux was ever selected to be a service dog. The lady who originally imported him (with warnings from me, Ed, and Sara against rushing, and how some CSVs just weren't cut out for this type training) intended to train him in Schutzhund/IPO type work. Sara originally purchased Luna from me, with the possibility to use her for service, conformation, and whatever type of training suited her (Luna does herding, obedience, a little protection, and she is also in the training phases of service work - and doing well, from what I understand) - but mostly as a loved pet, which she is. Sara, while concerned, was excited for her friend buying a puppy and tried to support her through the problems she had with Pollux from the early days; I don't imagine she ever thought Pollux's owner - her friend - someone who works with dogs, would do this to Pollux, it's very disappointing on many levels. I think Ed and Sara, feeling bad for Pollux, wished to get Pollux in as good a place as they could for his eventual "forever home" - with training, socialization and love. At the same time, Sara depends on her dogs for...well, her life. I think she recognizes that she can't give Pollux all that he needs in her home, living only as a pet beside the dog(s) she currently uses for service work, as well as the old retired ones (they don't live on a huge farm where they can keep ten dogs outside - all of their pets live in their house). I think now she wants to make sure he does go somewhere appropriate to his needs, where he can live inside as a much loved pet and companion, without huge training expectations, for the rest of his life.

It is an unfortunate situation, not one that I am happy about...and I do wish breeders in Europe would think very, very carefully before sending a dog to someone far away who they have never met, or that has no reference, at the very least, from an experienced CSV owner. Crying Wolf is definitely not the only breeder who is "guilty" of this. We have CSVs on this side of the world from Germany, Belgium, Lithuania, Czech Rep., Slovakia, Italy...all sent "blindly". I also wish new owners would go to see where and how their puppies are really raised, in what conditions, how the parents are, and of course, look at lineage. I think most new owners don't realize how important these things are for CSVs, maybe even more than other breeds. I feel certain that Pollux is not the first CSV with the need to be rehomed as an older dog ...Ed is maybe just one of the more honest, "open" and vocal people to discuss this on the forum.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Of course, these words will not change the situation of Pollux - but maybe other people will read it before buying a "future service dog" from a farm, just because "it looks sooooo beautiful"...

That is Pollux's savin grace - he's gorgeous. Physically he's striking.

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

I don't think Pollux was ever selected to be a service dog. The lady who originally imported him (with warnings from me, Ed, and Sara against rushing, and how some CSVs just weren't cut out for this type training) intended to train him in Schutzhund/IPO type work.

Much to our surprise he enjoys "the game" out on the schutzhund field. I'm even woring on getting him to bark on command and me might, just might, be able to do a bark and hold someday.

Sara originally purchased Luna from me, with the possibility to use her for service, conformation, and whatever type of training suited her (Luna does herding, obedience, a little protection, and she is also in the training phases of service work - and doing well, from what I understand) - but mostly as a loved pet, which she is.

Luna not only exceeded our expectations with her SD training, she far exceeded our wildest dreams, she's doing great and we think she might actually enjoy it, although she won't admit it. SHe did enjoy Cape Canaveral and Disney last month, though!

I feel certain that Pollux is not the first CSV with the need to be rehomed as an older dog

Older? He's only 15 months!

[tupacs2legs]

imo 15 months is young in a breed such as this,and a difficult time for a young male that could be going through another 'fear stage' (and teenage)as well as changing homes

[draggar]

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

imo 15 months is young in a breed such as this,and a difficult time for a young male that could be going through another 'fear stage' (and teenage)as well as changing homes

Luna went though a regression (for the lack of a better term) around 12-14 months. Pollux seemed to go though the same at the same age, we think he went out of it about a month ago.

The regression wasn't fun with either but they both came out a better dog. We're writing it off as part of the maturing process.

[yukidomari]

How important to you is it that he stay in proximity for your needs?

Surely it can't be so hard to find a nice home for a free dog of a young age and a rare breed somewhere in the USA (or even beyond).

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by draggar

The regression wasn't fun with either but they both came out a better dog. We're writing it off as part of the maturing process.

That was what i did say Do not worry it will pass

Very best regards / Mikael

[Gypsy Wolf]

I do feel like I need to jump in here and perhaps clarify the situation. I got Luna from Marcy KNOWING the commitment it takes to raise a dog - Service Dog or not - and KNOWING what my limits are when it comes to how many dogs I can manage in my home.
My friend saw Luna and how amazing she is and wanted one of her own NOW. So yes, despite all of our telling her to take her time and research, she decided on Pollux.
In the beginning everything was fine and as she has been training dogs for years, I figured it was the perfect placement - yes, he might be different that she was used to but challenges teach us, right?
Well, after a while, she decided she was not interested in working with him any longer and he was relegated to a kennel in the back yard.
That is where we came in - I suggested we take him for a while and work with him - FOR A WHILE. I felt responsible for him as I had introduced my friend to the breed and if I could work with him and help him, he could go back to her better off.
So he came into our home and I worked him like we work any of our other dogs - some Service Work, some Schutzhund, some Conformation training, etc.
He has made some huge strides under our care and training and he is an amazing dog - every achievement makes me proud. But Pollux is not our dog, I have all the dogs I can handle on my own. I WISH I had the time, room, etc., to keep him ourselves, but we don't, and it isn't fair to my other dogs, either.
There is a saying here "no good deed goes unpunished" and it's painfully true here - we are trying to do our best by a dog that is not even ours and we are getting attacked for it.
It's not our mess to clean up, but he has fallen into our lap and we want to do what is fair for him.
Fair for him would be a home where his owners have more time than I do to work him through his issues.
At least I will know, personally, where he will go... in someone else's hands, I have no idea where he might be placed.
We are Pollux's foster home - we have plenty of experience being "interim" homes for rescue dogs, so your support would be more appreciated than your criticism. We are trying to improve his home situation - don't you think we feel awful having seen his situation deteriorate? I didn't encourage my friend's interest in the breed in order to create a problem - obviously had I any inkling of what would happen, I wouldn't have helped her find him in the first place... but she likely would've found another one on her own, and becasue I feel I am a steward of the breed, it is my duty to try and help a vlcak in need. So go ahead and criticize me if you want, but ask yourselves what you would do in my place...

[Tazer]

Good to read you're in no rush and will keep him until the right home is found.

Again good luck finding him his forever home.

Taz

[tupacs2legs]

Guess I am in the minority here....so Pollux is being sold to breed from?

The dogs that were 'aquired' for game of thrones from here ,most of them ended up in rescue centres.....given up to 'GOF' because they were unwanted and surplus to their breeders!!!

[Rona]

Originally Posted by draggar

That is Pollux's savin grace - he's gorgeous. Physically he's striking.

Could you post any photos of him? No that I doubt about it, but a photo would "materialize" him, and maybe increase his chances for a good permanent home

I'd also put him in the section "Adult CSV looking for new homes" This thread will drop at some point and there are new people coming to this site.

Originally Posted by draggar

Much to our surprise he enjoys "the game" out on the schutzhund field. I'm even woring on getting him to bark on command and me might, just might, be able to do a bark and hold someday.

I'm not a specialist in training, least of all in schutzhund, but from people who have trained their dogs and from what I read on the Polish WD (written by a specialist trainer in this sport) I've understood it's suitable for self-confident dogs with even temperament. The dog should undergo all stages of the training and learn not only to hold/attack, but also to control itself. Otherwise, especially when young, it may get even more confused and unpredictable. Not knowing the future of Pollux, what kind of family he'll stay with and where he will live, don't you think it might be a bit risky to start such kind of training at his 'sensitive age'? CSV mature between they're 2,5-3.
Just recently I've heard of a nice young vlcak that started schutzhund trainings with his owner, but didn't "finish the course" . Later he was adopted by another family (it was out of life necessity, the owner was devastated she had to part with him). Probably the two factors combined caused that in new situtations he started 'playing the schutzhund game' in the street with accidental pedestrians, which he never did before the trainings

I also think that CSVs being quiet creatures is their great asset for many owners (including myself). What's the point in teaching him barking if you don't know his new owner's prefereneces?

Don't treat this as criticizm, as I know little about schutzhund. These are just a few reflections based on common sense and on reading you post .

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by Rona

I also think that CSVs being quiet creatures is their great asset for many owners (including myself). What's the point in teaching him barking if you don't know his new owner's prefereneces?

I wish someone would convince my dogs of this! I taught my female to "speak" on command...but mostly just so I could also teach her a gentle command to be quiet. If she gets jealous, or sees a squirrel, or there is a visitor...like all strong women, she has no problem speaking her mind! And being a CSV, she decided to teach all of my other dogs to...talk.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Rona

Could you post any photos of him? No that I doubt about it, but a photo would "materialize" him, and maybe increase his chances for a good permanent home

I'd also put him in the section "Adult CSV looking for new homes" This thread will drop at some point and there are new people coming to this site.

Here are some (not so good) pictures (Pucktures?) we took of him the other day:

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o...r/pets/Pollux/

I'm not a specialist in training, least of all in schutzhund, but from people who have trained their dogs and from what I read on the Polish WD (written by a specialist trainer in this sport) I've understood it's suitable for self-confident dogs with even temperament. The dog should undergo all stages of the training and learn not only to hold/attack, but also to control itself. Otherwise, especially when young, it may get even more confused and unpredictable. Not knowing the future of Pollux, what kind of family he'll stay with and where he will live, don't you think it might be a bit risky to start such kind of training at his 'sensitive age'? CSV mature between they're 2,5-3.

Right now he is in the full "gape" aspect of it. To him the sleeve is a toy and he wants the toy (he's on a padded puppy sleeve now). He gets the toy, he runs around with it, and then he drops it (and on occasion rolls around on it). The helper gets the sleeve, taunts him with it, and then the game starts over again. He's not serious with it at all, to him it is just playtime with him, me, and the helper.

Just recently I've heard of a nice young vlcak that started schutzhund trainings with his owner, but didn't "finish the course" . Later he was adopted by another family (it was out of life necessity, the owner was devastated she had to part with him). Probably the two factors combined caused that in new situtations he started 'playing the schutzhund game' in the street with accidental pedestrians, which he never did before the trainings

IMO the dog didn't have the right training, or at least the wrong training at the wrong time. Pollux hasn't done any "protection" part of it and he doesn't see it as protection - he just sees it as playing. Also, any good schutzhund dog should know when to "turn it on" and when not to, it seems this dog did not.

Our club is very good and non-political (very few of those here in the USA). They are not DVG or USA affiliated (hence no politics) and their primary focus is on the dog. I've seen clubs try to ruin dogs just so they can justify their own methods and get more $$$ for training and others just flat out refuse dogs into their club that aren't good (or just insult the dog until the owners leave).

I also think that CSVs being quiet creatures is their great asset for many owners (including myself). What's the point in teaching him barking if you don't know his new owner's prefereneces?

Don't treat this as criticizm, as I know little about schutzhund. These are just a few reflections based on common sense and on reading you post .

Quiet? Vlcaks are a quiet breed? You've never met our Luna. Pollux, though, I'm trying to train him to bark on command. He never barks unless he sees other dogs (like Luna) go running past his crate and he wants to come out to play or when he and Luna are playing a lot, then they get chatty. Other than that, he's very quiet.

[Hanka]

Why has this puppy this type of collar? Has he any serious problem? Or?....

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by draggar

Here are some (not so good) pictures (Pucktures?) we took of him the other day:

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o...r/pets/Pollux/

Is there a reason way you want to show him like this...
Whit the tail between the legs I mean, is he very shy ???

If not, I would try to get better photos fast...

It´s hard to find a grown Vlcak a good home, even a really good one, if they are shy it is even harder...

Can you give us all a smal presentation of how he is ???

Very best regards / Mikael

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

I We have CSVs on this side of the world from Germany, Belgium, Lithuania, Czech Rep., Slovakia, Italy...all sent "blindly".

You mentioned Lithuania, I know one dog sent from our country, could you please be more exact about the negative point in which he was mentioned?

Anyway, this sad story is also a lesson for European breeders...