Calculation of Wolf blood?

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by Rona

... I wonder if there are still any genes in our dogs?

I lately discovered some human characteristics in mine

[elf]

Fede, indeed you are talking about "Wolves genes" (not Wolfblood -which is just a math number-).
You know wolves and dogs are very very close regarding DNA sharing, and sometimes only a very little change in the genome may lead to huge structural/functionnal changes, so it's not expectable to be mesured lineary (like a %). Those kind of researches are rather new and are possible with use of DNA chip + computer analisis, you can make a google search with these words to go deeper: "Genome wide SNP haplotype dog domestication".
To complicate more, genes tend not to work alone but into what we call a 'genetic regulatory network' (GNR), this is also highly non linear processes. And in addition, you have other levels of regulation at "expression time" (ARN modulation by proteines is an exemple) => same genes -> different expressions. So, as you guess, no straight conclusion like this possible.

[Fede86]

Originally Posted by elf

Fede, indeed you are talking about "Wolves genes" (not Wolfblood -which is just a math number-).
You know wolves and dogs are very very close regarding DNA sharing, and sometimes only a very little change in the genome may lead to huge structural/functionnal changes, so it's not expectable to be mesured lineary (like a %). Those kind of researches are rather new and are possible with use of DNA chip + computer analisis, you can make a google search with these words to go deeper: "Genome wide SNP haplotype dog domestication".
To complicate more, genes tend not to work alone but into what we call a 'genetic regulatory network' (GNR), this is also highly non linear processes. And in addition, you have other levels of regulation at "expression time" (ARN modulation by proteines is an exemple) => same genes -> different expressions. So, as you guess, no straight conclusion like this possible.

Thank you for your explanation, I'll ask more specific information to the person who wrote about the genetic analysis on his dogs to understant what exactly he was referring to when he said they turned out to be less than 4% wolf, because from what you write it probably wasn't what I thought it was. As I said, I'm no expert regarding those matters. Anyway I was first of all talking about what I see: the AVERAGE Czechoslovakian wolfdog looks very different from a wolf to me. If I had to tell how much wolf I see in the average CWD using a percentage, it would not be nearly as high as a 30% (one third wolf!). But then, someone else may think they look MORE than 30% wolf. Again, I'm conveying a PERSONAL opinion, not stating a universal truth. Maybe I'm just sick of people owning Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and calling them "wolves"

[loco]

Originally Posted by Fede86

Maybe I'm just sick of people owning Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and calling them "wolves"

At this point, you do not stand alone .
Groette Martine.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Angelika

I lately discovered some human characteristics in mine

We've discovered this long time ago

[Gypsy Wolf]

Statistically, I was looking at the number of GSDs and wolves that were used as foundation stock for our breed. 48 GSDs and 5 wolves. 5 is not 30% of 48.
Also, per one of the above posts, as the "best of the best" of the CSVs were selected to be bred, likely it was an overwhelming amount of GSD genetics that were selected for. Yes, they look very wolfy (though a lot of GSDs do too) phenotypically, most "wolf" behavioral characteristics were selected AGAINST - such as flight response, shyness, nervousness, independence, etc. Most of the desireable behavioral characteristics that were selected FOR were GSD traits - courage, biddability, social/pack drive, etc.
The wolf and dog genome are almost identical as dogs, obviously ARE wolves - albeit domesticated. Our advantage is that we know what wolf blood we used, and there may be some DNA characteristics (mitochondrial or other) specific to our Carpathian wolves. Certainy there are differences morphologically. So perhaps in the future we can recognize those markers and determine EXACTLY how much "wolf" is in any given CSV.
Until then I will just enjoy my DOG.
Oh, just because CSVs are often used to portray wolves, doesn't necessarily mean they look exactly like wolves... here in the U.S. I know of many film shots of "wolves" are played by sable GSDs, Malamutes and sometimes even Belgian shepherds! I am hoping that having a CSV available for film work will help change that, as my own dogs have been in multiple film projects - in other roles of course - they've played Police K9s or guard dogs and even "crippled" dogs in need of a doggie stroller...

[Rona]

I found out that not many of the so-called 'ordinary people' (i.e. not dog lovers) see the wolfishness of our dogs. Most expect a dog on a leash and they see a dog. It's usually children, who say: 'Look, this dogs looks like a wolf".

In our city lives a man who owns (probably illegallly) a real Carpathian wolf, a truly beautiful animal called Burek. I met them once walking at the river. We started talking and the man told me I was the THIRD (sic!) person in five years who recognized Burek was a wolf.

I asked him if he was not afraid that I'd report him, but he laughed and said that in such a case he'd tell the City Guards or Police that Burek was a CSV without a pedigree and nobody would question that.

And now a question: a dog or a wolf?

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Rona

And now a question: a dog or a wolf?

Hmmmm, I think it is nor a wolf or a dog...

I think it is a Wolfdog

Very best regards / Mikael

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Hmmmm, I think it is nor a wolf or a dog...
I think it is a Wolfdog
Very best regards / Mikael

Good answer! It's a CSV

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Rona

And now a question: a dog or a wolf?

Originally Posted by Rona

Good answer! It's a CSV

I did think the ears was to mush GSD, wolf normally has lower and more furry ears, I also did think the eyes was to dark, most wolf I did see had very light eyes.

But sometimes it´s very hard to tell...

Very best regards / Mikael

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by Rona

It's a CSV

Ooooohh ... you couldn´t wait, Rona? I was still searching on Per Olav´s site because of the impressive "neck collar"

[Gypsy Wolf]

Actually, it's funny how *I* see the species... to me, every dog is a developmentally stunted, physically mutated wolf...
Though most people here, in the U.S., really only recognize the term "Animal Behaviorist" I am actually an "Animal Ethologist" - the difference is that Behaviorists study behavior in a "repeatable, scientific" laboratory method. We Ethologists are a little "rogue" - we study animals in their natural environment and record their behavior. Because animals LEARN, very few negative episodes are repeatable, thus "anecdotal" rather than following the "scientific" model.
Of course, these "anecdotes" are an amazing peek into how animals think - Betty the Crow in England can fashion a hook out of a paper clip to get food items in a tube. Just like Chimps who select and strip a twig to stick in an anthill to get food... or my dogs who learn how to get out of locked crates and open the drawer that contains their treats...
That is actually one of the many reasons I love the CSV - I love watching how Luna perceives the world and how she learns. It's incredible to me.
BTW, did "Burek" the wolf behave especially "wolfy"? Shy? Nervous? Just curious...

[Fede86]

Originally Posted by Rona

And now a question: a dog or a wolf?

I think I was talking about the "average" CWD. You don't have to show me pictures, I know many very "wolfy" Czachoslovakian wolfdogs and many not strictly "wolfy" but equally beautiful. I noticed Blitz on the database a while ago, it's a shame she died

[Rona]

To me a CSV is a dog that has SOME characteristics of a wolf, maybe a bit more than average dog... especially when it comes to mischiefs. To me they do look much more wolfish than GSD, especially as their movement is concerned. (just a personal opinion)

But I agree that little machos (where little refers not to their size, but rather to their macho quality) with big 'wolves', are simply ...humorous.

I think I still prefer the 'big machos' with tiny dogs on long leash that one may meet in Croatian holiday resorts

[elf]

Next wolf blood ? Magnificent Bezinka

[Gypsy Wolf]

Is Bezinka the more brownish one? A real wolf?

[hanninadina]

Yes, she is a terrific carpatian wolvin with now 2 years. On the pic she must be a bit younger.

Christian

[Silvester]

Hey "elf" !

Very fine pictures to see and to explain the differences in looking of (one)pure wolf to ( two ) CsW..!!

Great photos, i love them !!

Do you have any more of this ?

Best greetings from Germany, Silvester