Norwegian ban on SW and CzW

XaedasKSP · 28-11-2009, 02:35

And still you love to help the socialist in the manner people did in commie nations by telling them that others "break their socialist law"......

There was a funny russian joke about such practice and how common it was: "A man asks his neighbour in the prison cell: For what did they inprison you? Man: "For being lazy" Asker: "What its impossible?" Man:"Well I sat with my neighbour at home and we told each other political jokes about the commies. It rained outside so I decided to stay home and go to the police next day. And the neighbour, he didnt care about the rain....."

And if you know so much about FrP then how can you deny that the party stand for freedom and that if it gains power then all kinds of dogs will be legal in addition to many other personal freedoms like freedom to buy alcohol for normal price.

And for Mikael: Well I know Norway is not in the EU but ever heard of Schengen or have you ever crossed the border between Norway and Sweden in Ørje or in sandvika close to Verdal in Nord-Trøndelag ?? There are no one on the border there and no one cares about dogs they look for drugs, vodka and beer if they look for something.... So dont worry I could get a real wolf imported if I just paid enough to buy a wolfcub and register it as a mix in Poland for example...but since I am responsible I dont want or need a real wolf and a CSV will do perfectly.

Per Olav · 28-11-2009, 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

And still you love to help the socialist in the manner people did in commie nations by telling them that others "break their socialist law".......

First of all: this is a forum for csv owners and lovers of the breed. Not a forum for political discussions. There are other foras for that.
--
po

XaedasKSP · 28-11-2009, 03:18

Yeah but aint the politicians the problem with having a CSV in peace in Norway. If the socialists are the problem for the breed then its suitable to write here about this.

If politicians forbid vodka in Norway then people will write about it on a vodka forum, the same applies to CSV. The politicians have forbidden norwegian people to own this dog just because they want to do so....since there are no cases where a CSV killed someone etc. like with pitbulls etc. At the same time they dont care about mix dogs so why in all hells cant people just "forget" where their dog came from and register it as a mix since actually all dogs are mixes of something just the race ones are selected before breeding.

Funny that the government cant forbid people from certain more violent nations just in the same way they forbid certain dogs some without reason =D

So the best way to dont give a damn about the socialist law is to register a dog as a mix until more liberal politicians take over in 2013. And I cant understand how someone who claims to like dogs can even try to get the governments attention to me and the dog that I will have......happily its an impossible task.

I will have it officially as a mix dog born in Norway and no one will be able to prove me wrong after the dog have crossed the norwegian border. Since then I can just burn the documents about the dog and claim that its a dog born here in Norway as a husky and something else mix. And no neighbour or anyone else who aint very, very good dog specialist will even think that I am not telling the truth. And both me and the dog will live in peace in Norway with no one caring about it.....

Nebulosa · 28-11-2009, 05:26

Maybe, people from certain violent nations commonly comes to Norway for find peace and life quality which they don't have in their mother country, then, even the govern commonly wait of these people dont find problems in Norway, which is worldwide known by its huge quality of life.
Remembering also that normally those "more violent nation", well known in what people call "third world", are normally in the south and centrum of the globe, in more warm countries, so if someone from those places are really decided to live in Norway, which is cold and you really need to work for live, they will not be what we can call "lost people" which had go to another country with the hope of magically try a new and worthy life without barely know the alphabet, like you can easily meet in USA.
It seems that your govern, like the Canadian one, asks for people from those "violent places" to come and work there because the lack of people to do it, people which the "third world countries" are full.

Dogs will not travel to a different country for run away of something, for find a new and worthy life neither they work for your country (except police and rescue dogs), a owner will bring the dog because he wants, who is this owner nobody knows, maybe someone very kind and wise like Per Olav, maybe some maniac which only wants to have an wolf for show to his friends his new "pet" or fulfill his "dream", maybe someone who wants win some money selling puppies for who pay, without worrie about who will be the owner and how much prepared this person is.

Looking by this point, it turns your comparison a nonsense.

I really dont agree with BSL rules, they're unfair and normally a nonsense, BSL rules are common and some countries (old socialists or completly capitalists

) have it, in some countries it work, in some others its simply governamental utopy, for dont say one fail way to get more votes, so it not work.
In Norway it seems work strongly than we can even imagine, its only you see the sad and tragic case of Majlo , don't try to said that he had problems because he is a Staff and different of CzW everyones is able to uncover a staff but not a CzW, CzW is a dog breed with FCI standard, a dog which follow a internationally standard of tipicity, it means that everyone that's a little bit informed can discouver that what you have is an CzW and not a mix, so you will have a dog in the same nightmare as Majlo.
I warn about it because the breed was pretty involved in the law and seems that was well comented on Norway, it means that after it some people, principally who works controlling it had at least to get informed about the breed, how to recognize, more information about character and so on. No doubts bring a CzW like a mix or whatever dog or animal will be dangerous for the dog, so who in good concience will risk a innocent life for had an "exotic forbidden pet"? It make less sense than the BSL law which we all hate.

If you want to do something, better would be if you use all your energy for help Per Olav in try to change the situation. When the law change you can have your CzW without worrie about laws.

Per Olav · 28-11-2009, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

So dont worry I could get a real wolf imported if I just paid enough to buy a wolfcub and register it as a mix in Poland for example...but since I am responsible I dont want or need a real wolf and a CSV will do perfectly.

My advice is don't ever think of it. Never. For your info a false pedigree or papers won't help. Last year a number of Amstaff's was taken into custody on the police's suspicion of illegally imported with falsefied pedigrees or papers showing the dogs were mixes of other breeds but Amstaff. Some were put to death, other are still in custody at the expence of the owners. If you really want to improve the situation of the csv in Norway there are others ways of doing it - not by acting as an irresponsible owner for the sake of your own.
--
po

XaedasKSP · 28-11-2009, 13:49

Well what neither you or Per Olav understand although he should do since he lives in Norway and claims to know the politics very well is that this whole "try to change the law" thing is doomed to failure or to at least take 30 years to complete as long socialists rule.

Havent you heard about the last case in Norway about the biodiesel tax? Well the SV(ine) socialist party said they are against the tax while they signed the budget with the tax included and then afterwards they said they are against the tax and just signed wrong....but what happend? "Well we are sorry we cant change anything right now even as we are against the tax, we have signed already so there is no way back the tax is law now" that kind of answer.......or just look at the cars it took like 8 years to change ONE thing changing the tax from the volume tax to a CO2 tax and this was something important that the socialists actually "worked" with.

So how much time do you thing they will care about the dog cause and how much will they care to change anything even if you convince them that you are right ? Socialist beaurocracy is really a very big machine, thats hard to change. They will just tell you something like: "We are sorry that we banned this dog, maybe this shouldnt have been done so fast but there were people telling us different things etc. But now we have already signed the ban so we cant do anything about it right now come back next year and we will see what we can do"

Then you come next year and the answer is: "Well we wanted to legalize the race but then someone came to us and told us to do not since its dangerous so we must look a little more on the info to take the decision, we are really sorry etc."

And thats the socialist way of solving the problem, the result is that you can wait forever and get no result, while people who want to have such a dog can only get it by using the socialist own weapon and getting papers that the dog is a mix. As beaurocracy lovers socialists are happy when someone show them a paper with a stamp no matter what is written there as long as the paper got a true stamp from proper authority.....

People cant just sit and wait and hope that in 2013 it will be enough with those 30 000 votes that we got more in the election in 2009 than the socialist side will be enough to get more mandates in the Storting. I want to have a CSV and no socialist shall be able to tell me that I cant....if all people followed the law then there would be communism in whole eastern europe today, and not a single jew in europe would have survived holocaust. Good things are results of walking around stupid laws made by socialists, commies or national socialists.

Maybe if there were 1000 CSVs in Norway registered as mix then some beaurocrates would care to use their time to change the documents and allow CSV in Norway......since I guess that the populistic socialists wouldnt dare to put 1000 dogs into a gaschamber and lose the votes of anyone who likes animals in Norway.....

Per Olav · 28-11-2009, 14:30

Obviously you don't have the faintest idea of how democracy works. Grow up at get some knowledge or at least show some interrest in e g supporting the Norwegian Kennel Klub and its partners in changing the law.

And ending this discussion with you: May I remind you that the slogan of your party is "The Law and Order Party" - not "The Breaking the Law and Order Party".

A link to this discussion is sent to the hq of your party requesting if it's commonly accepted by the party chairmanship that its members on a international public forum do name the party's political opponents apes and swine.
--
po

XaedasKSP · 28-11-2009, 16:01

Well most debatants on for example sol.no or else places say SV(in) and AP(e) since the hate of socialism have grown to new levels between people who have had to tolerate socialist government for really long period of time and their missed decisions. Ofc. we dont do it officially in debates.

And as for the changing of law in a democracy I know perfectly how it works, its possible via an election once in 4 years and the last one failed even when the right side had 30 000 more votes. Its ofcourse also possible to make small changes via lobbies etc. But if it takes like 8 years to do a small change to the car tax law, and if it is possible that "mistakes" like signing an extra biodiesel tax law happen. Then how can you believe that this socialist government will care to use their time on changing the law upon dogs, the best proof of this is that you said they made the dog forbidden in 2003 or something like that and now there is 2009. And what have you achieved in those years ? And how can you tell that you will achieve anything more in the next 5 years if the government doesnt change?

Per Olav · 28-11-2009, 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by XaedasKSP

And as for the changing of law in a democracy I know perfectly how it works, its possible via an election once in 4 years and the last one failed even when the right side had 30 000 more votes

Just one last comment

A law might be changed at any time. You don't need an election of doing that. No law is changed by elections but on demand when the law obviously is based on misleading, false, failing or lack of background information, is outdated according to changes in public affairs etc - this fact is learned by every pupil at primary school stage. Reading your arguments I feel ashamed of beeing a country fellow man of you.

Rona · 28-11-2009, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per Olav

Reading your arguments I feel ashamed of beeing a country fellow man of you.

Per Olav, I fully emphatize with you. I feel ashamed of being a nation fellow of his.

michaelundinaeichhorn · 28-11-2009, 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per Olav

Obviously you don't have the faintest idea of how democracy works. Grow up at get some knowledge or at least show some interrest in e g supporting the Norwegian Kennel Klub and its partners in changing the law.

And ending this discussion with you: May I remind you that the slogan of your party is "The Law and Order Party" - not the "Breaking the Law and Order Party".

A link to this discussion is sent to the hq of your party requesting if it's commonly accepted by the party chairmanship that its members on a international public forum do name the partys political opponents apes and swine.
--
po

And I would like to add some suggestions: There are more important animal issues in your country than if you are able to keep a CSW to show of, for example wolf-hunting and whale-hunting out of questionable reasons.

A good thing to spend your political energy on, if you change the countries point of view on wolves you will very likely find it very easy to change the point of view on wolfdogs. But of course you won´t have any personal profit out of it and won´t be very popular especially in conservative groups.

I fully agree with Rona, an intelligent dog needs an intelligent owner, you shouldn´t get yourself one in the moment.

Ina

28-11-2009, 05:26	#4
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	Maybe, people from certain violent nations commonly comes to Norway for find peace and life quality which they don't have in their mother country, then, even the govern commonly wait of these people dont find problems in Norway, which is worldwide known by its huge quality of life. Remembering also that normally those "more violent nation", well known in what people call "third world", are normally in the south and centrum of the globe, in more warm countries, so if someone from those places are really decided to live in Norway, which is cold and you really need to work for live, they will not be what we can call "lost people" which had go to another country with the hope of magically try a new and worthy life without barely know the alphabet, like you can easily meet in USA. It seems that your govern, like the Canadian one, asks for people from those "violent places" to come and work there because the lack of people to do it, people which the "third world countries" are full. Dogs will not travel to a different country for run away of something, for find a new and worthy life neither they work for your country (except police and rescue dogs), a owner will bring the dog because he wants, who is this owner nobody knows, maybe someone very kind and wise like Per Olav, maybe some maniac which only wants to have an wolf for show to his friends his new "pet" or fulfill his "dream", maybe someone who wants win some money selling puppies for who pay, without worrie about who will be the owner and how much prepared this person is. Looking by this point, it turns your comparison a nonsense. I really dont agree with BSL rules, they're unfair and normally a nonsense, BSL rules are common and some countries (old socialists or completly capitalists ) have it, in some countries it work, in some others its simply governamental utopy, for dont say one fail way to get more votes, so it not work. In Norway it seems work strongly than we can even imagine, its only you see the sad and tragic case of Majlo , don't try to said that he had problems because he is a Staff and different of CzW everyones is able to uncover a staff but not a CzW, CzW is a dog breed with FCI standard, a dog which follow a internationally standard of tipicity, it means that everyone that's a little bit informed can discouver that what you have is an CzW and not a mix, so you will have a dog in the same nightmare as Majlo. I warn about it because the breed was pretty involved in the law and seems that was well comented on Norway, it means that after it some people, principally who works controlling it had at least to get informed about the breed, how to recognize, more information about character and so on. No doubts bring a CzW like a mix or whatever dog or animal will be dangerous for the dog, so who in good concience will risk a innocent life for had an "exotic forbidden pet"? It make less sense than the BSL law which we all hate. If you want to do something, better would be if you use all your energy for help Per Olav in try to change the situation. When the law change you can have your CzW without worrie about laws. __________________

28-11-2009, 14:30	#7
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	Obviously you don't have the faintest idea of how democracy works. Grow up at get some knowledge or at least show some interrest in e g supporting the Norwegian Kennel Klub and its partners in changing the law. And ending this discussion with you: May I remind you that the slogan of your party is "The Law and Order Party" - not "The Breaking the Law and Order Party". A link to this discussion is sent to the hq of your party requesting if it's commonly accepted by the party chairmanship that its members on a international public forum do name the party's political opponents apes and swine. -- po Last edited by Per Olav; 28-11-2009 at 15:54.

28-11-2009, 02:35	#1
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	And still you love to help the socialist in the manner people did in commie nations by telling them that others "break their socialist law"...... There was a funny russian joke about such practice and how common it was: "A man asks his neighbour in the prison cell: For what did they inprison you? Man: "For being lazy" Asker: "What its impossible?" Man:"Well I sat with my neighbour at home and we told each other political jokes about the commies. It rained outside so I decided to stay home and go to the police next day. And the neighbour, he didnt care about the rain....." And if you know so much about FrP then how can you deny that the party stand for freedom and that if it gains power then all kinds of dogs will be legal in addition to many other personal freedoms like freedom to buy alcohol for normal price. And for Mikael: Well I know Norway is not in the EU but ever heard of Schengen or have you ever crossed the border between Norway and Sweden in Ørje or in sandvika close to Verdal in Nord-Trøndelag ?? There are no one on the border there and no one cares about dogs they look for drugs, vodka and beer if they look for something.... So dont worry I could get a real wolf imported if I just paid enough to buy a wolfcub and register it as a mix in Poland for example...but since I am responsible I dont want or need a real wolf and a CSV will do perfectly.

28-11-2009, 03:18	#3
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	Yeah but aint the politicians the problem with having a CSV in peace in Norway. If the socialists are the problem for the breed then its suitable to write here about this. If politicians forbid vodka in Norway then people will write about it on a vodka forum, the same applies to CSV. The politicians have forbidden norwegian people to own this dog just because they want to do so....since there are no cases where a CSV killed someone etc. like with pitbulls etc. At the same time they dont care about mix dogs so why in all hells cant people just "forget" where their dog came from and register it as a mix since actually all dogs are mixes of something just the race ones are selected before breeding. Funny that the government cant forbid people from certain more violent nations just in the same way they forbid certain dogs some without reason =D So the best way to dont give a damn about the socialist law is to register a dog as a mix until more liberal politicians take over in 2013. And I cant understand how someone who claims to like dogs can even try to get the governments attention to me and the dog that I will have......happily its an impossible task. I will have it officially as a mix dog born in Norway and no one will be able to prove me wrong after the dog have crossed the norwegian border. Since then I can just burn the documents about the dog and claim that its a dog born here in Norway as a husky and something else mix. And no neighbour or anyone else who aint very, very good dog specialist will even think that I am not telling the truth. And both me and the dog will live in peace in Norway with no one caring about it.....

28-11-2009, 13:49	#6
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	Well what neither you or Per Olav understand although he should do since he lives in Norway and claims to know the politics very well is that this whole "try to change the law" thing is doomed to failure or to at least take 30 years to complete as long socialists rule. Havent you heard about the last case in Norway about the biodiesel tax? Well the SV(ine) socialist party said they are against the tax while they signed the budget with the tax included and then afterwards they said they are against the tax and just signed wrong....but what happend? "Well we are sorry we cant change anything right now even as we are against the tax, we have signed already so there is no way back the tax is law now" that kind of answer.......or just look at the cars it took like 8 years to change ONE thing changing the tax from the volume tax to a CO2 tax and this was something important that the socialists actually "worked" with. So how much time do you thing they will care about the dog cause and how much will they care to change anything even if you convince them that you are right ? Socialist beaurocracy is really a very big machine, thats hard to change. They will just tell you something like: "We are sorry that we banned this dog, maybe this shouldnt have been done so fast but there were people telling us different things etc. But now we have already signed the ban so we cant do anything about it right now come back next year and we will see what we can do" Then you come next year and the answer is: "Well we wanted to legalize the race but then someone came to us and told us to do not since its dangerous so we must look a little more on the info to take the decision, we are really sorry etc." And thats the socialist way of solving the problem, the result is that you can wait forever and get no result, while people who want to have such a dog can only get it by using the socialist own weapon and getting papers that the dog is a mix. As beaurocracy lovers socialists are happy when someone show them a paper with a stamp no matter what is written there as long as the paper got a true stamp from proper authority..... People cant just sit and wait and hope that in 2013 it will be enough with those 30 000 votes that we got more in the election in 2009 than the socialist side will be enough to get more mandates in the Storting. I want to have a CSV and no socialist shall be able to tell me that I cant....if all people followed the law then there would be communism in whole eastern europe today, and not a single jew in europe would have survived holocaust. Good things are results of walking around stupid laws made by socialists, commies or national socialists. Maybe if there were 1000 CSVs in Norway registered as mix then some beaurocrates would care to use their time to change the documents and allow CSV in Norway......since I guess that the populistic socialists wouldnt dare to put 1000 dogs into a gaschamber and lose the votes of anyone who likes animals in Norway.....

28-11-2009, 16:01	#8
XaedasKSP Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skien/Oslo Posts: 83	Well most debatants on for example sol.no or else places say SV(in) and AP(e) since the hate of socialism have grown to new levels between people who have had to tolerate socialist government for really long period of time and their missed decisions. Ofc. we dont do it officially in debates. And as for the changing of law in a democracy I know perfectly how it works, its possible via an election once in 4 years and the last one failed even when the right side had 30 000 more votes. Its ofcourse also possible to make small changes via lobbies etc. But if it takes like 8 years to do a small change to the car tax law, and if it is possible that "mistakes" like signing an extra biodiesel tax law happen. Then how can you believe that this socialist government will care to use their time on changing the law upon dogs, the best proof of this is that you said they made the dog forbidden in 2003 or something like that and now there is 2009. And what have you achieved in those years ? And how can you tell that you will achieve anything more in the next 5 years if the government doesnt change?