Norwegian ban on SW and CzW

Per Olav · 02-09-2002, 09:55

For your information.

The Norwegian Ministry of Justice and the Norwegian Ministry of Enviroment are
working on proposal of banning the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog (CSV)and the
Saarlos Wolfhound (SW) breeds in Norway.

The Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (NRK) is immiment to launch a news
feature in disfavour of the two breeds on the TV.

The Broadcasting Corporations reporter on the subject, has illegally copied
pics from my CSV homesite. If I don't participate in the programme to defend
the breeds, the reporter will use the pics stolen from my homesite. I will by
no means participate in this event.

Regards

Per Olav

Tonje · 02-09-2002, 12:36

As Per Olav, I am extremely concerned about the proposed banning of the CSV
and SW in Norway (and I don't even have a CSV). It is extremely worrying when
also the largest television channel, with most viewers, wish to make an
unfavourable presentation in the news. They do unfortunately have a large
impact on public opinion - and the authorities.

So far, they have concentrated on Am.staffs and Pitbulls. This is not quite
unreasonable as there are some criminals that have trained such dogs for
dogfighting (stealing unattended family dogs to use as training opponents) and
also, through maltreatment, there are individuals that are extremely agressive
towards humans. (However, it is grossly unfair to propose banning of am.staffs
as the majority of am.staff owners have nice and agreeable dogs, but I
digress.)

This with the CSV and SW is something "new", and may be inspired by the latest
developments in the wolf situation in Norway. Last week there was an episode
where 18 sheep were mauled and killed by wolves ("wolves or hybrids" as they
said in one newspaper) quite close to a village (along the road to the local
school). This has been intensely covered by mass media with an angle only
suited to severely frighten people. In addition it has been reported that
there will be a proposal for the implementation of sheepfree sones for wolves,
where farmers will not be encouraged to graze their sheep in summer. (In
Norway farmers have a right to graze their sheep - completely unattended - in
the mountains, forests etc. They are endorsed for any loss of sheep to wild
carnivores. While the sheep are out "on pasture" the responsibility for the
sheeps' safety lie on the authorities and the public, eg. any dog on the loose
in grazing area can be put down, irrespectably of whether it chases sheep or
not. A total of appr. 130 000 sheep die each summer season, an appr. 20 000 of
these, are killed by wolverines, eagles and so forth. The number that can be
connected to wolf is less than 1000, but I think it is the most hated of all
our wild carnivores).

The result is that the rural population is in an uproar due to the
infringement on their rights and in addition people are frightened by the fact
that wolves have appeared in the close vicinity of a village. Couple the looks
of the CSV and SW with wolf phobia, throw in the CSV's military background and
use for eg. IPO, and you get something that the media love to present from the
worst possible point of view. They don't really bother with finicky details
like that there is a difference between wild wolves, hybrids and the
wolfdog-breeds. Nor do they care about that there are very few of these dogs
(especially the CSV) in Norway and that, Per Olav for one, is the most
responsible of owners. The authorities are "easily" pressured by what is
reported in mass media, so this is really terribly worrying.

Regards Tonje

P.S. I finally met Per Olav's "little puppy" yesterday. What a wonderful
aquaintance! Cziky is extremely friendly when he says hello to people, is
quite marvelous together with other dogs, putting them at ease and playing
with them. Looking at him in action, one could easily forget that this is not
just a big, friendly chump (Cziky put on quite a silly behaviour when
attending to "the ladies"..). Sadly I can not say the same about my little
basenji who was quite willing to take on even big and formidable Cziky. He
just turned away and stayed away from her when she bared all her dainty white
teeth and snarled and growled at him, no skin of his nose! Certainly a case
of "big nice wolf" meeting "little bad wolf" (like the Disney cartoon, but in
reverse).

Pavel · 02-09-2002, 12:51

Hi my friend Per Olav,
am schocked about the news, which come from Norway. Am ready to help you with full
my power and knowledges (you know me). If you will need something, let me know.

I cross the fingers for you and for kick out the stupid people, not only in Norway

Pavel with whole pack

Per Olav · 02-09-2002, 18:27

Quote:

Hi my friend Per Olav,
am schocked about the news, which come from Norway. Am ready to help you
with full
my power and knowledges (you know me). If you will need something, let me
know.

As far as I know, the three major actors on the "banning" side are The
Ministry of Justice, The Ministry of Environment and!! The Norwegian Kennel
Club (and of course the Norwegian Broadcasting Corp where its News
Department not is in favour of neither wolves nor wolfdogs).

Most imminent is protesting against making a most subjective (and opinion
creating) feature in disfavor of the two breeds. The Norwegian
Broadcasting Corp (NRK) has appointed the CSV as the most "dangerous"
one with respect to its origin by the former Czechoslovakian Border Forces.
Regarding this, it is sad to mention that this image is created by
Norwegian Saarlos owners. The Saarlos owners were at first addressed by the
NRK to stand up and fight for the breed. They refused and "handed the ball
into my hands" claiming the CSV was a more dangerous breed and as such a
more interesting object for the News Department. This tactics worked out
perfectly and the Saarlos owners are hiding in the trenches :-)

I don't know if it will be of any help addressing the Norwegian
Broadcasting Corp and its News Department by protesting of bringing the
breeds in a disfavour able point of view.
If this should be done, it must be carried out in a strictly non emotional
way. It also show bad journalistic ethics by illegally copying background
material from a private home page.

If anyone should like toprotest against the upcoming feature, the mail
address of the news department is mailto:[email protected]

---
Per Olav

Pavel · 02-09-2002, 18:57

Hi,
I think, that if is in process just the Norwegian Kennel Club, then is
situation very disgusting. I mean, that should be organisate a protests from
kennel clubs of countries of origin (Czech and Slovak). They can protest by
FCI, because if Norwegian kennel club support this case, then goes against the
FCI basic policy and philosophy. National kennel clubs are here for support the
FCI recognised breeds and not for organisate restrictions against.
Per Olav I suggest, write a letter to both CsW Clubs in this countries and ask
about help. My opinion is, that this is one of most important mission of this
clubs - support our dogs around the world.

Here are adresses :
KCHCSV
Ing.Karel Hartl
Plzenska 75
160 00 Praha 6
Czech republic

KCHCSV
RNDr. Maria Glosova
Priemyselna 261
905 01 Senica
Slovak republic

Pavel

markmobius · 02-09-2002, 18:59

Just a short note to wish you well.

Mark (hopefully a future csv owner) in England

Per Olav · 02-09-2002, 19:27

Quote:

I think, that if is in process just the Norwegian Kennel Club, then is
situation very disgusting. (...)
Pavel

Hi my friend.

I'll do that, but first I have to do some investigation.

Thanks for all support.

Regards

---
Per Olav

catar2catars · 02-09-2002, 20:40

Quote:

Regarding this, it is sad to mention that this image is created by
Norwegian Saarlos owners. The Saarlos owners were at first addressed by the
NRK to stand up and fight for the breed. They refused and "handed the ball
into my hands" claiming the CSV was a more dangerous breed and as such a
more interesting object for the News Department. This tactics worked out
perfectly and the Saarlos owners are hiding in the trenches :-)

Sorry to hear that.
I'm a Saarloos wolfdog owner myself, living in Belgium,
In my opinion it would be better that those swh owners should cooperate with
csv people in Norway .
Stupid and sad!

Gr.
Roger
Belgium.

Per Olav · 02-09-2002, 20:41

Quote:

Sorry to hear that.
I'm a Saarloos wolfdog owner myself, living in Belgium,
In my opinion it would be better that those swh owners should cooperate with
csv people in Norway .
Stupid and sad!

I do agree. In particular when it's a only dozen or so SWs and a single
(or maybe two) CSVs.

---
Per Olav

didier · 02-09-2002, 21:03

Hi Roger
From Italy
I also am an owner of Saarloos wolfhound and I have also 8 CSV .
I agree with you and I am ready to cooperate with all the people of our CSV
Club.
Giancarlo

catar2catars · 02-09-2002, 21:13

Quote:

I also am an owner of Saarloos wolfhound and I have also 8 CSV .
I agree with you and I am ready to cooperate with all the people of our CSV
Club.
Giancarlo

Hi Giancarlo,
I just wrote Per an email invitation to become a member of the internet club
of swh people
with members in Belgium, Holland and Germany.
Let's see what we can do and I hope of a lot of reactions from people all
over Europe who care as wel as for the CVS as for the SWH.
Both are registred "wolfdogs" and if they bannish the wolfdog in Norway than
it is as well for the CVS as for the SWH, hope they'll realize it!!!!!!

gr.
Roger.

Wolfsirius · 02-09-2002, 21:34

Hello everybody,

This is very sad to hear, and i think, the most biggest
problem to me, because one of my puppies is going to Norway, as he get the bloodtest ok.

Now i don't know, what to think anymore.

I also have a Saarloos, and 3 adult CsV (+ 4 unsold puppy....) at home
and i never understund some Saarloos people, their attitude against CsV
and specially one Norweigian people i never forget....

I think, there is only one Saarloos breeder in Norway, "kennel Yoi Inu" http://home.c2i.net/leifn/engelsk.html

I don't know, how many Saarloos is in Norway, --->>>>> Per-Olav?

Something have to do, soon.

I am worried.

Suski, from Finland.

Wolfsirius · 02-09-2002, 21:38

see, this what i mean....
this is from that Norweigian breeders homepage...

"In the rest of Scandinavia there are just one known Saarloos Wolfhond, that is a male in Denmark. There are rumours about one in Finland but that is not confirmed to be a Saarloos Wolfhond. Some people sometimes like to tell others that they have a Saarloos Wolfhond, when they actually have an unregistrated hybrid. It is important to see the FCI registration papers to be sure about the breed and also have in mind that this is a very rare breed with total about four hundred individs wordwide. "

We have for sure, 4 Saarloos in Finland
(Xouri Hukka de Louba Tar & Wassili Wolkan de louba tar //
Ben Sarek from the companions of the wind, /// Jade WolfSirius Juara Bastaja)

Suski

Per Olav · 02-09-2002, 21:41

Quote:

I don't understand WHY the N Kennel Club is against 'wolfdog' breeds?
Have owners done something to anger them there? Ann from US
[--]

No, on the contrary.
Please view the very informative article written by Tonje on this mailing list.

---
Per Olav

Per Olav · 02-09-2002, 21:53

Quote:

see, this what i mean....
this is from that Norweigian breeders homepage...
(..)

I have' not viewed the reg# of the Norwegian Kennel Club but I'll do. 6 yrs
ago I visited a Norwegian breeder who then owned some 5 - 6 SWs. According
to him there was about the same number around his part of the country.
Later I've been mailed from another owner having 3 SW and according to my
info at least 2 more have been raised. Just a few are registred by the
Kennel Club due to the common oposition to wolves among a large part of the
population.

---
Per Olav

Per Olav · 02-09-2002, 22:06

Quote:

I have a suggestion for those under attack from anti-wolfdog forces. Dr.
Ray Pierotti, professor at Kansas State U in US has helped many in the US.
(...)
Ann from US

Thank you, Ann, I'll keep your information in mind.
We also have our supporting Alpha-group ( http://www.alpha-gruppen.com ),
with their expertise, but against our opposite parties.......

Anyway, the first step *might* be to influence the TV News Department of
our Broadcasting Corp. They could do very much harm with respect to wolves
and wolfdogs by sending the feature.

---
Per Olav

Per Olav · 02-09-2002, 22:36

Quote:

If you could get TV News Department of your Broadcasting Corp to talk to
Ray that might be a start. He is VERY persuasive backed by science.
He spoke to sceptical 300 dog trainers in the US under the conference that
I mentioned and there were NO negative comments and some good questions
from the audience at the end concerning their misconceptions. He has
appeared before many US judges and the US Dept of Agriculture and has
published in peer-reviewed journals. Ann
[--]

OK - but I think the worst by now is engaging in a dialogue with the News Dep.
In opinion the journalist already has made his mind up how to present his
story by
mixing a minimum of facts to a lot of emotions. They always do :-)
And it works!!

---
Per Olav

Huan · 02-09-2002, 23:35

Quote:

The Norwegian Ministry of Justice and the Norwegian Ministry of Enviroment are working on proposal of banning the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog (CSV)and the Saarlos Wolfhound (SW) breeds in Norway.

It is very sad news for us. If you would like to let other people know about
it, if you need signs for petition or you have any other idea about steps
that could help your case just let me know. We own a huge dog related
internet service which is visited every month by hundred of thousands of
people and could publicize the whole problem there.

Greetings,
Margo

Per Olav · 03-09-2002, 02:58

Hi Margo.

Commenting the subject would' not hurt, I suppose. However I do assume that
most imminent is preventing the Broadcasting Corp. to publish an article
discrediting our two breeds. By this the Corp is making it easier for the
supporters of a ban to give an image of the necessity of such a law. Maybe
appealing the News department of the Broadcasting Corp of publishing a
neutral comment on the breeds, if any, would stop this discrediting
article. If this is done, such a petition should be written in a most
neutral and non emotional way. But I think, however, that the time is
running to fast and I assume the feature is just to be sent.

In my opinion the next step should be that of addressing the authorities.

---
Per Olav

Per Olav · 05-09-2002, 21:37

Hi everyone.

Today I phoned a Saarlos breeder who is living in one of the most wolf
inhabited areas of South Eastern part of Norway. He is proven a skilled
breeder and a defender of wolves and by that not well thought of by some of
the farmers in his area.

In his area an accident occurred last week. Tonje (pippen) wrote in her
mail of Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:36:52 like this:
"Last week there was an episode where 18 sheep were mauled and killed by
wolves ("wolves or hybrids" as they said in one newspaper) quite close to
a village (along the road to the local
school). This has been intensely covered by mass media with an angle only
suited to severely frighten people. In addition it has been reported that
there will be a proposal for the implementation of sheepfree zones for
wolves, where farmers will not be encouraged to graze their sheep in summer."

The farmers addressed the Directorate for Nature Management claiming it was
no evidence that the sheep were attacked by wolves, they even might be
attacked and killed by wolf hybrids or wolfdogs. Thus the farmers
requested a ban on wolfdogs. The authority receiving the request assumed
wolf hybrid = wolfdog = illegal breed and implemented the farmers request
to the future proposal of a new common law regulating the keeping of dogs
in Norway.

My friend, the Saarlos breeder, will next Monday see the head of the
Directorate and inform him of the existence of the CSV and SW as FCI
approved breeds. We do cross our fingers :-)

---
Per Olav

02-09-2002, 09:55	#1
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	Proposed banning of CSV and SW in Norway For your information. The Norwegian Ministry of Justice and the Norwegian Ministry of Enviroment are working on proposal of banning the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog (CSV)and the Saarlos Wolfhound (SW) breeds in Norway. The Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation (NRK) is immiment to launch a news feature in disfavour of the two breeds on the TV. The Broadcasting Corporations reporter on the subject, has illegally copied pics from my CSV homesite. If I don't participate in the programme to defend the breeds, the reporter will use the pics stolen from my homesite. I will by no means participate in this event. Regards Per Olav

02-09-2002, 12:36	#2
Tonje Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 9	Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in As Per Olav, I am extremely concerned about the proposed banning of the CSV and SW in Norway (and I don't even have a CSV). It is extremely worrying when also the largest television channel, with most viewers, wish to make an unfavourable presentation in the news. They do unfortunately have a large impact on public opinion - and the authorities. So far, they have concentrated on Am.staffs and Pitbulls. This is not quite unreasonable as there are some criminals that have trained such dogs for dogfighting (stealing unattended family dogs to use as training opponents) and also, through maltreatment, there are individuals that are extremely agressive towards humans. (However, it is grossly unfair to propose banning of am.staffs as the majority of am.staff owners have nice and agreeable dogs, but I digress.) This with the CSV and SW is something "new", and may be inspired by the latest developments in the wolf situation in Norway. Last week there was an episode where 18 sheep were mauled and killed by wolves ("wolves or hybrids" as they said in one newspaper) quite close to a village (along the road to the local school). This has been intensely covered by mass media with an angle only suited to severely frighten people. In addition it has been reported that there will be a proposal for the implementation of sheepfree sones for wolves, where farmers will not be encouraged to graze their sheep in summer. (In Norway farmers have a right to graze their sheep - completely unattended - in the mountains, forests etc. They are endorsed for any loss of sheep to wild carnivores. While the sheep are out "on pasture" the responsibility for the sheeps' safety lie on the authorities and the public, eg. any dog on the loose in grazing area can be put down, irrespectably of whether it chases sheep or not. A total of appr. 130 000 sheep die each summer season, an appr. 20 000 of these, are killed by wolverines, eagles and so forth. The number that can be connected to wolf is less than 1000, but I think it is the most hated of all our wild carnivores). The result is that the rural population is in an uproar due to the infringement on their rights and in addition people are frightened by the fact that wolves have appeared in the close vicinity of a village. Couple the looks of the CSV and SW with wolf phobia, throw in the CSV's military background and use for eg. IPO, and you get something that the media love to present from the worst possible point of view. They don't really bother with finicky details like that there is a difference between wild wolves, hybrids and the wolfdog-breeds. Nor do they care about that there are very few of these dogs (especially the CSV) in Norway and that, Per Olav for one, is the most responsible of owners. The authorities are "easily" pressured by what is reported in mass media, so this is really terribly worrying. Regards Tonje P.S. I finally met Per Olav's "little puppy" yesterday. What a wonderful aquaintance! Cziky is extremely friendly when he says hello to people, is quite marvelous together with other dogs, putting them at ease and playing with them. Looking at him in action, one could easily forget that this is not just a big, friendly chump (Cziky put on quite a silly behaviour when attending to "the ladies"..). Sadly I can not say the same about my little basenji who was quite willing to take on even big and formidable Cziky. He just turned away and stayed away from her when she bared all her dainty white teeth and snarled and growled at him, no skin of his nose! Certainly a case of "big nice wolf" meeting "little bad wolf" (like the Disney cartoon, but in reverse).

02-09-2002, 12:51	#3
Pavel Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,190	Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in Hi my friend Per Olav, am schocked about the news, which come from Norway. Am ready to help you with full my power and knowledges (you know me). If you will need something, let me know. I cross the fingers for you and for kick out the stupid people, not only in Norway Pavel with whole pack

02-09-2002, 18:57	#5
Pavel Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,190	Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approvedwolfdog breeds in Hi, I think, that if is in process just the Norwegian Kennel Club, then is situation very disgusting. I mean, that should be organisate a protests from kennel clubs of countries of origin (Czech and Slovak). They can protest by FCI, because if Norwegian kennel club support this case, then goes against the FCI basic policy and philosophy. National kennel clubs are here for support the FCI recognised breeds and not for organisate restrictions against. Per Olav I suggest, write a letter to both CsW Clubs in this countries and ask about help. My opinion is, that this is one of most important mission of this clubs - support our dogs around the world. Here are adresses : KCHCSV Ing.Karel Hartl Plzenska 75 160 00 Praha 6 Czech republic KCHCSV RNDr. Maria Glosova Priemyselna 261 905 01 Senica Slovak republic Pavel

02-09-2002, 18:59	#6
markmobius Junior Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in Just a short note to wish you well. Mark (hopefully a future csv owner) in England

02-09-2002, 21:03	#10
didier Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 4	R: Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds Hi Roger From Italy I also am an owner of Saarloos wolfhound and I have also 8 CSV . I agree with you and I am ready to cooperate with all the people of our CSV Club. Giancarlo

02-09-2002, 21:34	#12
Wolfsirius Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 118	Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in Hello everybody, This is very sad to hear, and i think, the most biggest problem to me, because one of my puppies is going to Norway, as he get the bloodtest ok. Now i don't know, what to think anymore. I also have a Saarloos, and 3 adult CsV (+ 4 unsold puppy....) at home and i never understund some Saarloos people, their attitude against CsV and specially one Norweigian people i never forget.... I think, there is only one Saarloos breeder in Norway, "kennel Yoi Inu" http://home.c2i.net/leifn/engelsk.html I don't know, how many Saarloos is in Norway, --->>>>> Per-Olav? Something have to do, soon. I am worried. Suski, from Finland.

02-09-2002, 21:38	#13
Wolfsirius Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 118	Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in see, this what i mean.... this is from that Norweigian breeders homepage... "In the rest of Scandinavia there are just one known Saarloos Wolfhond, that is a male in Denmark. There are rumours about one in Finland but that is not confirmed to be a Saarloos Wolfhond. Some people sometimes like to tell others that they have a Saarloos Wolfhond, when they actually have an unregistrated hybrid. It is important to see the FCI registration papers to be sure about the breed and also have in mind that this is a very rare breed with total about four hundred individs wordwide. " We have for sure, 4 Saarloos in Finland (Xouri Hukka de Louba Tar & Wassili Wolkan de louba tar // Ben Sarek from the companions of the wind, /// Jade WolfSirius Juara Bastaja) Suski __________________ I believe in the Wolf, her spirit and her strength. I respect the power they have and will. Walk beside them and protect them my entire life. -Suski-

03-09-2002, 02:58	#19
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approvedwolfdog breeds in Hi Margo. Commenting the subject would' not hurt, I suppose. However I do assume that most imminent is preventing the Broadcasting Corp. to publish an article discrediting our two breeds. By this the Corp is making it easier for the supporters of a ban to give an image of the necessity of such a law. Maybe appealing the News department of the Broadcasting Corp of publishing a neutral comment on the breeds, if any, would stop this discrediting article. If this is done, such a petition should be written in a most neutral and non emotional way. But I think, however, that the time is running to fast and I assume the feature is just to be sent. In my opinion the next step should be that of addressing the authorities. --- Per Olav

05-09-2002, 21:37	#20
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	Norwegian proposal of banning FCI approved wolfdog breeds in Hi everyone. Today I phoned a Saarlos breeder who is living in one of the most wolf inhabited areas of South Eastern part of Norway. He is proven a skilled breeder and a defender of wolves and by that not well thought of by some of the farmers in his area. In his area an accident occurred last week. Tonje (pippen) wrote in her mail of Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:36:52 like this: "Last week there was an episode where 18 sheep were mauled and killed by wolves ("wolves or hybrids" as they said in one newspaper) quite close to a village (along the road to the local school). This has been intensely covered by mass media with an angle only suited to severely frighten people. In addition it has been reported that there will be a proposal for the implementation of sheepfree zones for wolves, where farmers will not be encouraged to graze their sheep in summer." The farmers addressed the Directorate for Nature Management claiming it was no evidence that the sheep were attacked by wolves, they even might be attacked and killed by wolf hybrids or wolfdogs. Thus the farmers requested a ban on wolfdogs. The authority receiving the request assumed wolf hybrid = wolfdog = illegal breed and implemented the farmers request to the future proposal of a new common law regulating the keeping of dogs in Norway. My friend, the Saarlos breeder, will next Monday see the head of the Directorate and inform him of the existence of the CSV and SW as FCI approved breeds. We do cross our fingers :-) --- Per Olav