Italian bonitations

Rona · 08-09-2009, 10:18

In Poland dogs do not need bonitations to get the breeding rights, nor HD, ED, PRA, nor working exams, etc. but just three excellent (male) and at least very good (female) show results. So any extras the owners do with their dogs is just their good will connected with their care about the breed development.

However - not having the bonitation as the breeding requirement - the owners can bonitate their dogs as many times as they wish, which leads to humorous situations and uncovers the absurds of bonitations, which I have pointed out here several times.

Examples: one owner found bonitating his dog so enjoyable, that he repeats it every year

, another found that the dog lost 2 cm in height in one year.

Besides, if one dog gets P3 just because it loses just 0.03 to the required format to get P1 and another gets P3 despite clearly visible wrong format, (broad chest, short legs, etc.), long ears, dark eye - how can anybody treat bonitations seriously, wherever they are carried out? So the whole topic for me is just "much ado about nothing"

BUT: since wolfdog.org site is a private project, the owners/admins may set and apply any rules they wish and the users may either accept them or.... leave. Of course everybody may propose changes or improvements, but it's up the the owners if they accept them or not. I wonder why some people find it so difficult, almost impossible to understand?

PS When in 1989 private ownership was first introduced in our part of the world workers in one factory went on strike under the slogan "We want the company owner to be changed!" Doesn't it sound familiar?

massimo · 08-09-2009, 10:27

Rolf, it has already been said several times that Czech and Slovak clubs don't need to recognize a thing from outside countries.
You did actually say something rather obvious: if a Czech dog must get pedigree, the mother MUST have bonitation done in Czech republic and the father, if Czech, too. If the father is not Czech, he must have the minimum requirements for breeding in his country.
So they don't care how or if the dogs have been bonitated.

Also in Italy there are NO requirements for getting Pedigree...anything you do (bonitation, exams, xrays) is ONLY because of good will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rona

Besides, if one dog gets P3 just because it loses just 0.03 to the required format to get P1 and another gets P3 despite clearly visible wrong format, (broad chest, short legs, etc.), long ears, dark eye - how can anybody treat bonitations seriously, wherever they are carried out? So the whole topic for me is just "much ado about nothing"

BUT: since wolfdog.org site is a private project, the owners/admins may set and apply any rules they wish and the users may either accept them or.... leave. Of course everybody may propose changes or improvements, but it's up the the owners if they accept them or not. I wonder why some people find it so difficult, almost impossible to understand?

haha...you make me crack up! absolutely true.
massimo

Juniorwolf · 08-09-2009, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by massimo

Rolf, it has already been said several times that Czech and Slovak clubs don't need to recognize a thing from outside countries.
You did actually say something rather obvious: if a Czech dog must get pedigree, the mother MUST have bonitation done in Czech republic and the father, if Czech, too. If the father is not Czech, he must have the minimum requirements for breeding in his country.
So they don't care how or if the dogs have been bonitated.

Well I am sorry, but it was not obvious(or logical) to me, as in many other breeds it is possible(and normal) to get your dog bonitated in other countries, which is accepted and recognized by the breedclub in the country where the dog lives.

Greetings Rolf

Hanka · 08-09-2009, 10:30

Rolf, please where was video from czech bonitation? I had not see it......?
Rona, I think, it is not funny to go 2x or more to bonitation with one dog. I don´t understand why somebody do it. Maybe he wait best result for publicing?

Rona · 08-09-2009, 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Rona, I think, it is not funny to go 2x or more to bonitation with one dog.

Polish owners are not bound to obey Czech or Slovakian regulations, so why not?

Czech owners do not need to obey Polish ones (shows), either...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

I don´t understand why somebody do it. Maybe he wait best result for publicing?

Neither do I

But since the dog gets the same P1 code every time, it's definitely not the case you mention

Maybe the owner just enjoys it?

Juniorwolf · 08-09-2009, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Rolf, please where was video from czech bonitation? I had not see it......?

I did not mention any video from Czech bonitation, but from Slovak bonitation.

Greetings Rolf

Hanka · 08-09-2009, 12:47

Ok, thanks

Navarre · 08-09-2009, 15:04

There is a main difference form italian and czech-slovakian character test : in the italian test the dog is never leaved ALONE.

I think this is a big difference that justify considering it a different test that should have different code as results.

Juniorwolf · 08-09-2009, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navarre

There is a main difference form italian and czech-slovakian character test : in the italian test the dog is never leaved ALONE.

I think this is a big difference that justify considering it a different test that should have different code as results.

...and the main difference between Czech and Slovak bonitations is aggeression in the charactertest, different ways of interpret the R1 code, the index and 1cm to little = P14.

This is 4 things, the Italian bonitation only have 1 difference compared to the Czech bonitation, so this should justify considering it a different test and different ways of jugdement, Czech and Slovak bonitations should have different codes as results

I will repeat my self again : one difference is not worser than another, it is still a difference.

Greetings Rolf

Monika · 08-09-2009, 17:50

Please, let Judge to say if dog is melancholic, choleric, sangvinic, flegmatic or something between this characteristic. Be alone I can lern shy dog without problem.
Important is, if the test is able to say something about volume of excitement and inhibition simply, about the adaptability and robustness aginst shot. And this italian test do it!
The bureaucracy not belong to breeding of dogs and wolfdog. org with admin WITHOUT NAME do it, simply.
I am sorry for my English.

Monika Soukupová

08-09-2009, 10:18	#1
Rona Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kraków Posts: 3,509	In Poland dogs do not need bonitations to get the breeding rights, nor HD, ED, PRA, nor working exams, etc. but just three excellent (male) and at least very good (female) show results. So any extras the owners do with their dogs is just their good will connected with their care about the breed development. However - not having the bonitation as the breeding requirement - the owners can bonitate their dogs as many times as they wish, which leads to humorous situations and uncovers the absurds of bonitations, which I have pointed out here several times. Examples: one owner found bonitating his dog so enjoyable, that he repeats it every year , another found that the dog lost 2 cm in height in one year. Besides, if one dog gets P3 just because it loses just 0.03 to the required format to get P1 and another gets P3 despite clearly visible wrong format, (broad chest, short legs, etc.), long ears, dark eye - how can anybody treat bonitations seriously, wherever they are carried out? So the whole topic for me is just "much ado about nothing" BUT: since wolfdog.org site is a private project, the owners/admins may set and apply any rules they wish and the users may either accept them or.... leave. Of course everybody may propose changes or improvements, but it's up the the owners if they accept them or not. I wonder why some people find it so difficult, almost impossible to understand? PS When in 1989 private ownership was first introduced in our part of the world workers in one factory went on strike under the slogan "We want the company owner to be changed!" Doesn't it sound familiar? __________________ Last edited by Rona; 08-09-2009 at 10:21. Reason: spelling error

08-09-2009, 15:04	#8
Navarre VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Roma Posts: 5,998	There is a main difference form italian and czech-slovakian character test : in the italian test the dog is never leaved ALONE. I think this is a big difference that justify considering it a different test that should have different code as results. __________________ Susanna & Gianluca & Andrea & Navarre & Isabeau & Brandimarte & Anastasia & Lana Last Navarre & Beau Isabeau

08-09-2009, 17:50	#10
Monika Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 346	Please, let Judge to say if dog is melancholic, choleric, sangvinic, flegmatic or something between this characteristic. Be alone I can lern shy dog without problem. Important is, if the test is able to say something about volume of excitement and inhibition simply, about the adaptability and robustness aginst shot. And this italian test do it! The bureaucracy not belong to breeding of dogs and wolfdog. org with admin WITHOUT NAME do it, simply. I am sorry for my English. Monika Soukupová Last edited by Monika; 08-09-2009 at 17:54.

08-09-2009, 10:30	#4
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Rolf, please where was video from czech bonitation? I had not see it......? Rona, I think, it is not funny to go 2x or more to bonitation with one dog. I don´t understand why somebody do it. Maybe he wait best result for publicing?

08-09-2009, 12:47	#7
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Ok, thanks