New admin

[admin]

Originally Posted by buidelwolf

I also wonder why GB and their breeders are removed. Could anyone answer?

CzW is not a KC recognized breed. It means they do not get FCI-recognized pedigrees - at the moment they have the same status for our population as the nonpedigree CzWs bred in Europe.

After the breed will be accepted by KC and the puppies will get "normal" (FCI recognized) pedigrees the responsible breeders (who do not mix CzW with any other breeds) from GB will appear on the list.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Admin

CzW is not a KC recognized breed. It means they do not get FCI-recognized pedigrees - at the moment they have the same status for our population as the nonpedigree CzWs bred in Europe.

After the breed will be accepted by KC and the puppies will get "normal" (FCI recognized) pedigrees the responsible breeders (who do not mix CzW with any other breeds) from GB will appear on the list.

so how come you have two reeders from USA on the breeders listing are they under FCI,? do they have proper USA pedigrees,and do the USA work with FCI.

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by solowolf

so how come you have two reeders from USA on the breeders listing are they under FCI,? do they have proper USA pedigrees,and do the USA work with FCI.

To answer your question, as one of the "listed USA breeders"....

My oldest male and female are registered with the AKC Foundation Stock Service (FSS), which is the preliminary phase for rare or new breeds. My younger female's paperwork is pending, my younger male will be registered once I have his paperwork from Italy. After 300 dogs/150 owners are registered with the FSS, the breed moves into the Miscellaneous class for a year before being eligible for AKC sanctioned conformation events. In the FSS phase, the CSV is eligible for performance, working and companion events once a breed club, standard, and 3 generation pedigreed dogs are established in the US. The AKC and FCI will reciprocate with pedigrees - each honors the other. Imported dogs must be DNA verified with the AKC (and match the microchip/tattoo inserted by the breeder's vet) before their litters can be registered. Beyond that, is up to the American breed club to establish a code of ethics for breeders related to the AKC.

At this point in time, I imagine most, if not all, CSVs bred in the US will remain in the US (although I have had some inquiries about future litters from some mutt breeders in the UK - I didn't respond), since they don't possess any uniquely diverse genes that are not already in Europe. There is a higher chance of dogs in the UK making their way to mainland Europe, I would imagine, simply out of closer proximity.

I also health test all of my dogs before I breed...my 2 oldest have their Penn-Hip results (which takes 3 x-rays - distraction, Norberg, and standard hip-extended view). In the standard hip-extended view, it was noted that there was no degenerative joint disease - HD, or cavitation in either dog. In laxity (looseness of hips), my male (Taabernakkelin Hronsek) had hip results of 0.38 and 0.39. My female (Anthea od Vlci SKaly) had hip results of 0.23 and 0.37. Both were in the 80th percentile for all breeds - they have tighter hips than 80% of all dogs tested. As far as I know, they are the only CSVs to take the Penn-Hip evaluation (currently it is a closed database). Once 20 CSVs have been tested, there will be specific statistics for the breed, and results will be even more useful and accurate. Margo already has copies of my certificate - it's her choice to use them (or not) if she thinks they will benefit the website.

Penn Hip website: http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Defaul...nn.edu/pennhip

Tool to find certified Penn-Hip vets in different countries that give Penn-Hip tests (in the USA, it's a bit more expensive than OFA - but the standard x-ray can be taken at the same time, so x-rays only need to be taken once for submission to other foundations). Penn-hip will provide statistics for breed clubs:
http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Default.aspx?TabId=3539

Articles on the science of Penn-Hip:
http://www.amrottclub.org/health_pennhip.shtml
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/pennhip1.html

I will be testing for ED once my female is 2 years. Results will be found here (OFA hip results for 2 wolfdogs - not mine - can already be found here): http://www.offa.org/search.html (scroll to Czechoslovakian Wolfdog)

My CERF (eye) results are pending, and will be found here:
http://sunnycrest.vmdb.org/CerfWebSe...rchByName.aspx

Once I figure out a way to export my dog's blood to the Netherlands, I'd also like to test for the dwarfism gene.

I love this breed, and really do want to start things out right in the USA...this year I was very lucky to see my first bonitation (in Roudnice nad Labem, in April), and also to meet Karel Hartl and many owners, breeders and wolfdogs!

Blusteel also has very good intentions, and have a history of ethical breeding of the Cane Corso.

All of the very best,
Marcy

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by wildenmorgen

To answer your question, as one of the "listed USA breeders"....

My oldest male and female are registered with the AKC Foundation Stock Service (FSS), which is the preliminary phase for rare or new breeds. My younger female's paperwork is pending, my younger male will be registered once I have his paperwork from Italy. After 300 dogs/150 owners are registered with the FSS, the breed moves into the Miscellaneous class for a year before being eligible for AKC sanctioned conformation events. In the FSS phase, the CSV is eligible for performance, working and companion events once a breed club, standard, and 3 generation pedigreed dogs are established in the US. The AKC and FCI will reciprocate with pedigrees - each honors the other. Imported dogs must be DNA verified with the AKC (and match the microchip/tattoo inserted by the breeder's vet) before their litters can be registered. Beyond that, is up to the American breed club to establish a code of ethics for breeders related to the AKC.

At this point in time, I imagine most, if not all, CSVs bred in the US will remain in the US (although I have had some inquiries about future litters from some mutt breeders in the UK - I didn't respond), since they don't possess any uniquely diverse genes that are not already in Europe. There is a higher chance of dogs in the UK making their way to mainland Europe, I would imagine, simply out of closer proximity.

I also health test all of my dogs before I breed...my 2 oldest have their Penn-Hip results (which takes 3 x-rays - distraction, Norberg, and standard hip-extended view). In the standard hip-extended view, it was noted that there was no degenerative joint disease - HD, or cavitation in either dog. In laxity (looseness of hips), my male (Taabernakkelin Hronsek) had hip results of 0.38 and 0.39. My female (Anthea od Vlci SKaly) had hip results of 0.23 and 0.37. Both were in the 80th percentile for all breeds - they have tighter hips than 80% of all dogs tested. As far as I know, they are the only CSVs to take the Penn-Hip evaluation (currently it is a closed database). Once 20 CSVs have been tested, there will be specific statistics for the breed, and results will be even more useful and accurate. Margo already has copies of my certificate - it's her choice to use them (or not) if she thinks they will benefit the website.

Penn Hip website: http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Defaul...nn.edu/pennhip

Tool to find certified Penn-Hip vets in different countries that give Penn-Hip tests (in the USA, it's a bit more expensive than OFA - but the standard x-ray can be taken at the same time, so x-rays only need to be taken once for submission to other foundations). Penn-hip will provide statistics for breed clubs:
http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Default.aspx?TabId=3539

Articles on the science of Penn-Hip:
http://www.amrottclub.org/health_pennhip.shtml
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/pennhip1.html

I will be testing for ED once my female is 2 years. Results will be found here (OFA hip results for 2 wolfdogs - not mine - can already be found here): http://www.offa.org/search.html (scroll to Czechoslovakian Wolfdog)

My CERF (eye) results are pending, and will be found here:
http://sunnycrest.vmdb.org/CerfWebSe...rchByName.aspx

Once I figure out a way to export my dog's blood to the Netherlands, I'd also like to test for the dwarfism gene.

I love this breed, and really do want to start things out right in the USA...this year I was very lucky to see my first bonitation (in Roudnice nad Labem, in April), and also to meet Karel Hartl and many owners, breeders and wolfdogs!

Blusteel also has very good intentions, and have a history of ethical breeding of the Cane Corso.

All of the very best,
Marcy

then after reading this your dogs are not eligable to attend any FCI show and are not under FCI ruling, so therefor technically according to what the Admin has stated you should not be on the breeders listings, but be as uk breeders not listed, but i am glad to see you and your countries flag up there it lets people see that people in USA are working for the breed, in uk we are lucky as we only need 10 imports and we have these all from different lines, all breeding stock is health checked, we do get abuse about our dogs but as your dogs, they all originated from Europe.......our dogs can go onto rare breeds registry and can compete at shows in UK and Europe, it seems very unfair to ask for so many dogs and owners, if you have 10 or more dogs from different lines then you can breed for many years befor needing new lines, why can they not accept this as a good enough gene pool for say 5 years after which you would then when required and via your club import more new lines. the uk kennel club take show statiistics into consideration and if you look at them on this site under showing you will see the mumbers for most shows are small,we also have letters from many European reeders who have stated we can use there stud dogs to increase our gene pool as we can now travel freely to Europe on passports to breed our bitchs, i am sure if you ask the breeders in Europe you can get frozen seamen straws for AI to USA. the k.cluub in uk have given lots of leeway for new and rare breeds ,

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by solowolf

then after reading this your dogs are not eligable to attend any FCI show and are not under FCI ruling, so therefor technically according to what the Admin has stated you should not be on the breeders listings, but be as uk breeders not listed, but i am glad to see you and your countries flag up there it lets people see that people in USA are working for the breed, in uk we are lucky as we only need 10 imports and we have these all from different lines, all breeding stock is health checked, we do get abuse about our dogs but as your dogs, they all originated from Europe.......our dogs can go onto rare breeds registry and can compete at shows in UK and Europe, it seems very unfair to ask for so many dogs and owners, if you have 10 or more dogs from different lines then you can breed for many years befor needing new lines, why can they not accept this as a good enough gene pool for say 5 years after which you would then when required and via your club import more new lines. the uk kennel club take show statiistics into consideration and if you look at them on this site under showing you will see the mumbers for most shows are small,we also have letters from many European reeders who have stated we can use there stud dogs to increase our gene pool as we can now travel freely to Europe on passports to breed our bitchs, i am sure if you ask the breeders in Europe you can get frozen seamen straws for AI to USA. the k.cluub in uk have given lots of leeway for new and rare breeds ,

As I understand, once the breed is recognized by the KC - and the dogs in the UK have KC recognized pedigrees which reciprocate with the FCI - they will also be "recognized" by this website as registered dogs. Maybe I am wrong....but I don't think it has to do with shows; it's more about the dogs being "legally recorded and recognized" in their country of birth. KC issued pedigrees will serve as legal "proof" of a dog's pedigree. My dogs (and future litters - none have ever been bred here) are registered with the AKC/FSS - they are legally recorded in the US registry. I also heard it is possible to register US dogs with the Puerto Rico branch of the FCI, since they are a US territory...something I might look into if the need were to arise...but I don't know the exact regulations of the FCI, so that could be wrong.

As far as litters/breeders being listed on this site, I think it is the regulation that kennels that breed mixes are banished - whether they are from the UK or another country...I've never bred a mixed litter (or purebred CSV litter), or had my dogs involved with one, so maybe it is also the reason I am still listed. If I followed the practice, I would also be banished. I think the "elusive Admin" tries to be fair, but he/she/they also do their best to look out for the best interest of the breed in maintaining the site...this is a narrow and difficult line to walk...a difficult part of leadership of the site, I imagine, especially knowing they will make some people upset. In many breed clubs in the USA, there is a code of ethics breeders must follow - a set of rules meant to protect the dogs - that has sanctions against breeders who breed mixed litters intentionally (it's viewed as an unethical practice) - the sanctions may be fines, or a period (usually 1-5 years) where dogs/litters owned by the breeder can't be registered, exhibited, etc. I don't know what the steps to redemption are for this site to be listed again, if there are any...but it is a private site, so those steps aren't required either. It is a privilege - but not a right - to be listed here. The privilege comes to those who abide by the rules - sometimes there are areas which are not so clear which must be responded to and worked through as the need arises (like the problem with ED on the other thread)- that is part of change and evolution with any organization, especially when there is no precedant...but again, this is only my perception...maybe I am wrong.

As for the AKC...haha...that is a whole different huge, ugly can of worms. It is based on money - until you have a large amount of dogs registered, the AKC doesn't think it is worth their time to devote attention to a breed. Once a breed is recognized, it becomes very political with professional handlers. Many newer (especially working) breed clubs have fought against recognition by the AKC...us Americans have a bad reputation for doing bad things to some dog breeds...our shelters and veterinary clinics full of genetically unhealthy dogs are living proof...this is part of the reason I was attracted to the CSV - it is a breed with real potential here, one that hasn't been ruined by poor breeding in the US. And now, it is why I do my best to steer it in a good direction in any way I can in the US. Mostly for fun, and to introduce other people to the breed, I show in UKC shows (no professional handlers allowed) - but this registry is not recognized by the FCI.

Marcy

[massimo]

As usual when some users are around the thread is totally out of its original text.
Can we create another endless thread AGAIN for UK&US breeding please

by the way, i asked already and ask again

WHO IS ADMIN
massimo

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by massimo

As usual when some users are around the thread is totally out of its original text.
Can we create another endless thread AGAIN for UK&US breeding please

massimo

My interpretation of this thread is that it is about frustrations over missing information, and the anonymity of "Admin" on WD. Paul stuck to this topic -though his information is missing for other reasons...even with the topic of UK being gone over many times before before, maybe he still doesn't understand, who knows, so I tried to explain one more time - what I have interpreted. Truthfully, I'd have never said anything at all - I'm sick of bickering too - but my kennel (and registration...and reputation) was addressed in Paul's thread. So, since no administrators answered, I gave my analysis of why my kennel is listed, and his is not. I also gave some results (Penn-Hip) that have not been posted on WD - and yes, it's a little frustrating - but it's not my website, so it's not my business, there are no blatant falsifications - I don't care too much. I do get questions in private emails (from Americans) who have looked at my dog's WD pages (and found my kennel here), and seen there are no HD results - so, in light of being addressed by Paul, I listed the online resources where American results can be found (other than WD), for anyone that might be interested - Americans (there are many), or otherwise.

Most discussions evolve (in person, or on a forum) in different ways - but maybe next time I will start 10 new threads for each related thought or detail I have about a topic.

As far as I know, there are no threads (other than people popping on every now and then to ask about it) about American breeding - since no litters have ever been bred in the US. If moderators or Admin want to move it to a new thread, it's no problem. In that case, I apologize for my confusion. I have faith in them to make a good judgement. I don't think Admin is Mickey Mouse - it's either Margo or Przemek - or someone they trust - and that is enough for me.

Don't deride me, please, Massimo....so far as I know, I have done nothing to wrong you...

Marcy

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by massimo

by the way, i asked already and ask again

WHO IS ADMIN
massimo

Ciao Massimo,

According to Pavel, the database is still in Margo`s care ?
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11828 (post 3)

Best greetings Rolf

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Admin

CzW is not a KC recognized breed. It means they do not get FCI-recognized pedigrees - at the moment they have the same status for our population as the nonpedigree CzWs bred in Europe.

After the breed will be accepted by KC and the puppies will get "normal" (FCI recognized) pedigrees the responsible breeders (who do not mix CzW with any other breeds) from GB will appear on the list.

Artemis Testamonium diaboli

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Admin

CzW is not a KC recognized breed. It means they do not get FCI-recognized pedigrees - at the moment they have the same status for our population as the nonpedigree CzWs bred in Europe.

After the breed will be accepted by KC and the puppies will get "normal" (FCI recognized) pedigrees the responsible breeders (who do not mix CzW with any other breeds) from GB will appear on the list.

my last post only put up the name of a dog that i asked in your oppinion is this dog a pure CWS ? there are also lots of other photos on this site where the dogs look not as to fit the breed standard by a long way, you also state only breeders from uk that do not cross with other breeds will be accepted, i take it this also applies to any country not just u.k.,? like for instance France or Italy as examples only of coarse,,,, oh yes if you could let me know if i am classed as x breeder, i used a male CWS on a wolf,, but you do state mix CZW with other breeds,, the wolf is not breed but Species, is this o.k. or are you going to change the rules again for u.k.
was this not done in Europe? maybe i get mixed up........

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Admin

CzW is not a KC recognized breed. It means they do not get FCI-recognized pedigrees - at the moment they have the same status for our population as the nonpedigree CzWs bred in Europe.

After the breed will be accepted by KC and the puppies will get "normal" (FCI recognized) pedigrees the responsible breeders (who do not mix CzW with any other breeds) from GB will appear on the list.

again more bull from you, 1 you know are dogs all originated from europe, 2 you know the dogs as well as they are on this data base, 3 you know from our breedings that we have mated a pure cws to a pure cws, they may not have FCI recognised pedigrees but they are pedigree dogs none the less, 4 why do you have them on your data base then? this is a feebile excuse for removing the uk breeders,5 why are kennels in Europe who have cross bred been allowed to remain on this data base? big difference in uk is the people who do cross breed dont register there pups as pure bred like in Europe and you guys wonder where the new health problems are coming from,,,,, go walk your dog,,,,,,,

[Hanka]

Hi admin, I sent you 2 emails already , with question, if you have my last new datas ....no answer.
So I don´t know if I can continue with sending of new datas over " add owner".
And I sent you 2x results of HD and HD of Valska od Úhoště.
is all OK?

[Hanka]

only UP........

[massimo]

Please don't take me personally but... if you want to write something to Admin which is between the two of you and doesn't regard all of us, why do you have to write it here on the forum?
I mean, if you complain because Admin doesn't update your data then I would understand because it would somehow regard all of us, maybe there is a conspiracy against you and your kennel (yours, Edit's, Riccardo's, Rolf...).
Admin, PLEASE, can you give us a schedule for updating data so we all know what you are up to?
Do you need any help? I'm sure you would find many volunteers ready to help.

[Hanka]

No Massimo, I have nothing against her )
I wrote a few emails with new dazas, other I sent over "add owner". I see, here was a few updating on page, but nothing new about my kennel. I had from admin (a few months ago) email, where admin ask me about some datas. I sent it, but.....nothing.
In last email I wrote to admin, if I must write something more. but no answer.
I understand, now is much more important things (everything about pups, litters, breeders want sell pups) and I understand it is more importanat than some "old" litters.
But for me is enough: "Yes, Hanka, we have info about your old litters, it will be in database later." Or: "send it once again in email, because "add owner" does not work well and we have not datas from you"
I need not more Massimo.
Admin wont some old datas from me, I arranged it from stud book in Prag, I sent it to WD, but no answer if they have it or no.
I think new admin taked too big work and now admin has not time for everything. it is too much work, datas, fotos, etc.etc. I thing for it must be a litlle bigger team. Not only one really workindg person.

[admin]

One question Hanka: did you sent the data BEFORE the last update and they were not included in the database? or Did you sent them AFTER it and I have again to write the old text
"THERE WAS NOT DATABASE UPDATE AND BECAUSE OF IT THEY CAN NOT BE THERE. THEY WILL BE VISIBLE AFTER THE NEXT UPDATE"
There is no way to inform people every 2-3 days "Your emails are there, we are working on them"

Sorry for bit angry post but it is really annoying the explain obvious things to the same people over and over again.

PS. Hanka, thank you for your information but your emails were sent AFTER the last update. And will be added after the next update as it was working since severeal years...