Artificial insemination only solution for the breed in spain?

[carlos2207]

Sorry Solowolf, I went to Lituania for Ituborys Girios Dvasia, and to Germany for Emba von der wolfranch and the past month I went to Czech Republic for to do one mate. Do you think that you can say me that the problem is that we don´t want to travel?

I see that you went to Holland and France for mate with your dogs. Next to UK.

I think that the problem is that the breeders should be serious and responsible. The breders should use the very good hd lines and, to use the most wolfish wolfdogs and with good character. This is my idea for breeding.

How many wolfdogs are with this characteristics? very very few. And too long from Spain. The fly to travel is necessary. This is very expensive because you need to buy the fly the last minute and this is very expensive. The AI is the unique option for the serious and responsible Bredeers of Spain.

If you want to breeding only for breeding, without the best wolfdogs, is very easy and not expensive. If you want that improve the breed the AI is necesary.

[GalomyOak]

Really interesting topic...

In the US, I have wondered the same thing...it's not a problem here yet, since (at least to my knowledge) the first litter has never been bred (although, I have seen some ads online recently trying to pass off mixes as Czechoslovakian Wolfdog mixes - different topic...).

Most people that import to the US choose to import females - either because they want to breed their own litter, or want a dog that they believe will have an easier temperament. So, the pool of males becomes small - dogs that would be good for breeding much smaller. And good breeding males from genetically diverse backgrounds...very, very low.

Obviously, driving to Europe is out of the question from here - carrying an adult female (or male, if it was an option) by airplane is possible - but stressful to the dog, and very, very expensive. Also, most airline companies ask for reservations for dogs well in advance - this can be difficult to time with a female's cycle.

I'd be very interested to see the evolution of the process and local CSV population if breeders in Spain (or elsewhere) begin using AI as a means of breeding.

Best wishes,
Marcy

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by wildenmorgen

Obviously, driving to Europe is out of the question from here - carrying an adult female (or male, if it was an option) by airplane is possible - but stressful to the dog, and very, very expensive. Also, most airline companies ask for reservations for dogs well in advance - this can be difficult to time with a female's cycle.

I'd be very interested to see the evolution of the process and local CSV population if breeders in Spain (or elsewhere) begin using AI as a means of breeding.

The same problem here, no wonder why
I was searching for the possibility to use frozen semem, but seems that it still didn't develope well and the problem is not only the small percentage to the female be pregnant, as the fact we will need to anesthesie the female for make the insemination.
Mainly its about to 30% of chances of the female be pregnant with frozen semmem, I read somethings about evolutions in this area, turning possible to upper this percentage for 60% ( much better) but still I have not enough information about it.
For bring cold sperm we will have about 48 hours for transport untill make the insemination, by our rules its simply impossible as the burocracy can make you lost days for took out the semmem of the airport, sometimes you will never be able to see it.
Anyway, 48 hours when we talk about travel over continents, you wil need to have much luck to have the female in the properlly day exactly when you back home, if not have any delay.

So, the way would be travel with the female, very stressfull thing that without doubts can make the female change her heath, if be everything all right, we will need to back with the female in the correct day and still you will have the possibility of the female absorbs the puppies for stress in the back trip, pretty common in Bernese Mountain Dogs for exemple.

So, the best way would be talk with a breeder, chose a male and try to bring it here for a time, let this male mate the females and back with him after.
But I wonder how many breeders would allow it

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

The same problem here, no wonder why
I was searching for the possibility to use frozen semem, but seems that it still didn't develope well and the problem is not only the small percentage to the female be pregnant, as the fact we will need to anesthesie the female for make the insemination.
Mainly its about to 30% of chances of the female be pregnant with frozen semmem, I read somethings about evolutions in this area, turning possible to upper this percentage for 60% ( much better) but still I have not enough information about it.
For bring cold sperm we will have about 48 hours for transport untill make the insemination, by our rules its simply impossible as the burocracy can make you lost days for took out the semmem of the airport, sometimes you will never be able to see it.
Anyway, 48 hours when we talk about travel over continents, you wil need to have much luck to have the female in the properlly day exactly when you back home, if not have any delay.

So, the way would be travel with the female, very stressfull thing that without doubts can make the female change her heath, if be everything all right, we will need to back with the female in the correct day and still you will have the possibility of the female absorbs the puppies for stress in the back trip, pretty common in Bernese Mountain Dogs for exemple.

So, the best way would be talk with a breeder, chose a male and try to bring it here for a time, let this male mate the females and back with him after.
But I wonder how many breeders would allow it

I wonder - does the effectiveness of AI differ between different breeds? For example, I know some breeders of working dogs (for actual work, not just show - mostly GSD, but also Rottweiler, etc.) use AI here with semen from European dogs (because it is difficult in many cases to find good working dogs in the US) and they seem to have good results, I guess - or they wouldn't keep doing it, I suppose. But, I know our breed is different...so, maybe it would be less effective...

Haha - Paula, maybe we can make a "real" plan here.... Maybe you and I can talk to our females, and convince them to come into heat at the same time - and then, we can make plans to bring all of our dogs to a mid-point between Brazil and the US - somewhere nice and with many comforts - Cancun maybe? And then, we can pay to bring a nice male along with his owner - and we can all take a holiday - wolfdogs, beaches, and happy times!!!

Ahhhh...back to reality...in truth, I think you are right - it would be most efficient to bring a male across the ocean...

Marcy

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by wildenmorgen

I wonder - does the effectiveness of AI differ between different breeds? For example, I know some breeders of working dogs (for actual work, not just show - mostly GSD, but also Rottweiler, etc.) use AI here with semen from European dogs (because it is difficult in many cases to find good working dogs in the US) and they seem to have good results, I guess - or they wouldn't keep doing it, I suppose. But, I know our breed is different...so, maybe it would be less effective...

Do you know if its with frozen semem or with he cold one?
The cold semen normally is very effective and don't need the anesthesie, but its only 48 hours for make everything after it be collected, I know some people breeder of Deutche dogge that made it with sucess, but the person who brings the semem was a "well know" person of the airport, so, they could jump the burocratic part, exactly what impeaches the others "mere mortal BR breeders" to make the IA with cold semem, but its a problem for me, different for you.
The main problem in breed difference is the wolfdog heath, but its not impossible when we already have cases with positive results, like the litter of La Llamada Del Lobo kennel.

Haha - Paula, maybe we can make a "real" plan here.... Maybe you and I can talk to our females, and convince them to come into heat at the same time - and then, we can make plans to bring all of our dogs to a mid-point between Brazil and the US - somewhere nice and with many comforts - Cancun maybe? And then, we can pay to bring a nice male along with his owner - and we can all take a holiday - wolfdogs, beaches, and happy times!!!

Dreaming holidays , next time, I cant forghet to play in the EU lottery if its get accumulate.

Ahhhh...back to reality...in truth, I think you are right - it would be most efficient to bring a male across the ocean...

Marcy

So far I think its the better way of be sure that we will not expent a lot of money and time for nothing, because in this case, even if the male don't want to cover, we can make the IA direct in the female, with 100% fresh semmen and how many times its be need, without count that the same male can cover much more females than only 1. We will only need to convince the owner to accept it

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by carlos2207

Sorry Solowolf, I went to Lituania for Ituborys Girios Dvasia, and to Germany for Emba von der wolfranch and the past month I went to Czech Republic for to do one mate. Do you think that you can say me that the problem is that we don´t want to travel?

I see that you went to Holland and France for mate with your dogs. Next to UK.

I think that the problem is that the breeders should be serious and responsible. The breders should use the very good hd lines and, to use the most wolfish wolfdogs and with good character. This is my idea for breeding.

How many wolfdogs are with this characteristics? very very few. And too long from Spain. The fly to travel is necessary. This is very expensive because you need to buy the fly the last minute and this is very expensive. The AI is the unique option for the serious and responsible Bredeers of Spain.

If you want to breeding only for breeding, without the best wolfdogs, is very easy and not expensive. If you want that improve the breed the AI is necesary.

ok so you are willing to travel as i have just been to Hungry to pick up dog by car as air travel i dont like for my dogs,only 16 hr drive, the dog Iused in Holland give me more wolfish looking dogs and produced great coats, this dog had all health tests as did my bitch, you want the best as do we all,you say that you want good HD lines, most wolfish looking ,good character, that would be nice,,,, you must then also agree with me on the changing of the czech as a breed as there are many variations of this breed now, one only has to look at the pictures on this site, the breed varies alot, from short coats to long coats, from the small thin to the large, also a lot more health problems over last 10 years,Ai is ok if you can get premission from the FCI,but it may be hard as the main gene pool is in Europe, I have used AI for thr Akita as gene pool in uk was low, straws from USA where sent and my vet done this it was good sucess with 8 puppies being produced,there are other types of wolfdogs now available in Europe, even in Spain there are now some, good luck with your search. i will be watching for your progress, regards pacino

[kaiku]

I think that the insemination is a good good option for the spanish breeders. It's good for open lines, because there are many people that cannot travel to make a mount.

[GalomyOak]

I found this article on the topic of AI in dogs while browsing the topic - I found it to be very descriptive (but, I am no vet, so I can't guarantee it's accuracy, or how up to date it is ). So many considerations!!!

http://www.hilltopanimalhospital.com...s%20frozen.htm

Best Wishes,
Marcy

[carlos2207]

Thank for the paper. I think that the First problem that have the spanish breeders is the negative of the breeder of the other countries for the IA. Sincerely I don´t understan why in 2009 years in this breed the breeders not let the IA. Pleased anyone can say me this reason?

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

The point why I am not a fan of regular used AI (in the here discussed case it has a good reason) is that in very many breeds it is used because the dogs aren´t able any longer to reproduce without this help. The bitches don´t show a normal heat or fight the male, the males aren´t able to get on the back of the female in mating position, the males aren´t interested in the bitches and so on. These problems are heritable to a very high amount, the dogs are kept in breeding with AI out of the usual reasons, being a multichampion etc.
If you use AI as a normal way to reproduce these problems are likely to occure sooner or later and being realistic I don´t think that the owners of these dogs will take them out of breeding.

Ina

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

...If you use AI as a normal way to reproduce these problems are likely to occure sooner or later and being realistic I don´t think that the owners of these dogs will take them out of breeding.

Ina

This is a very good point also...one that I had never really considered. I totally agree with this point. But, I guess maybe it would be less of a problem with established stud/brood dogs who had proven themselves in the "natural" way before being used for AI? Maybe this could be a criterion for males and females if AI were to start being used (and only in cases of distance, not to mask a breeding or genetic problem) within the breed...I guess once again, it would come back to the regulation of an international committee...

I guess another concern might be false identity of the male (in trying to breed mixes, perhaps...) Is there any kind of DNA test requirement (to establish verified parents) from the FCI with AI? In the US, it is required of imported sperm (and maybe also domestic, I forget...) and also imported dogs (who breed naturally) to have a valid DNA result from both parents before the AKC will register a litter.