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#1 |
Senior Member
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Mikael, Crossbreed means crossing a wolf with a dog! Saarloos people say there is no Timber wolf in Saarloos. The first wolf was a europaen russian wolf which Saarloos took.
It seems that you don´t know much about europaen wolves, do you?! One of the biggest europaen wolf was a carpartian male with 90 cm in shoulder! And the colour? Brown colour, it is the same you find it too by carpartian wolves. So if I understand you right you would even mix a siberian tiger with an indian tiger, or an indian elephant with an african elephant? Nort american wolves are different. For example they have at least 5 different colours, like black, white, grey, red, brown. Do you find these colours in europaen wolf? No, of course not! Different types but most is grey, with yellow, brown, a bit red, but always look like grey! In grey amercan wolves there are always different colours. They are different from behaviour. Sure for a person like you a wolf is a wolf. Please dream on. Christian Crossing a csw with a wolf is not 50 % wolfblood but normally about 65 %. Sure it is mathematics and the case is the F 1 is the main problem. And Paul did sell one of his pups to germany. And it would be not nice if this guy will bring this F 1 in csw population. |
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 575
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For me problem is not European or American wolf, but about regulations !
If you are a recognized breeder(does`nt matter what breed), you are not allowed to use your pedigree dogs to crossbreeding/mixbreeding, as it will discredit the big work there have been done to create the breed and undermine the the work of the kennel clubs all over, to make sure the recognized breeders is working for the better of the specific breed. ...At least this is how it works in Denmark ![]() For me crossbreeding and mixbreeding is the same, only names are different ![]() Hybrids is really not a valid word to use, when speaking of mix/cross between wolves and domesticated dogs. From a biological point of weiw, a hybrid is the name of the ofspring from two different species, wolves and domesticated dogs are the same species(eurasian wolf = canis lupus lupus / domesticated dog = canis lupus familiaris) ![]() I like all dogs, wolfdogs more than other dogs and wolves most of all ![]() Greetings Rolf |
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#3 | ||
Scandinavian Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,089
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![]() But as you did say your self "DREAM ON" ![]() Best regards / Mikael
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_________________________________________________ *Hronec, Rasty, Zilja * Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html
![]() Last edited by Mikael; 08-03-2009 at 21:45. |
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#4 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 575
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Christian was writing about european and american wolves are differet breeds ...not wolves and dogs ![]() Mikael animals from same family can be different breeds, don`t mix this up ![]() Wolves belong to the family "Canidae" which also includes : Canis Vulpes Dusicyon Lycaon ...and more. The genus type of wolves is "canis" which also includes : Lupus Rufus Latrans Aureus Simensis ...and more. The species of wolves is "canis lupus" which includes : Lupus(grey wolf) - ancestor of all wolves. Canis lupus aka grey wolf have some subspecies which includes : canis lupus lupus(eurasian wolf) canis lupus lycaon(east american timber wolf) canis lupus arctos(artic wolf) canis lupus pallipes(indian wolf) canis lupus signatus(iberian wolf) canis lupus occidentalis(canadian wolf) canis lupus dingo(dingo) canis lupus familiaris(domesticated dog) ...and more. Greetings Rolf |
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#5 | |
Scandinavian Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,089
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![]() ![]() But I my self would not cross them at all, but I do not se the reasan way Christian think it is totaly wrong, to cross American wolf to CsV but OK to cross European wolf to GSD ??? To me it is OK if it is done by an expert on cross breeding !!! how ever that is very rear ![]() ![]() I like CsV but also (unpure) dog breeds like Husky mixes, Alaskan Husky, Tamaskan dog, Tamaskan Wolfdog, American Wolfdog and Swedish Wolfdog, but I will newer cross my CsV whit any of them or a wolf !!! And I like wolves to much to bring then out of the woods ![]() Best regards / Mikael
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_________________________________________________ *Hronec, Rasty, Zilja * Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html
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#6 | ||||
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 575
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![]() True hybrids are only ofspring from two different species... Quote:
When European wolf and GSD were crossed it was done by experienced people and with a purpose, and with a very strict selection. Crossing american wolf and CSW will have no purpose, or what is the whole idea about it ? When you are a recognized breeder of CSW, you should not use your CSW`s for crossbreeding, if you as a recognized breeder want to breed crosses(does`nt matter what breeds) you should not use dogs from your own kennel, to me that is the main difference. Quote:
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Greetings Rolf Last edited by Juniorwolf; 09-03-2009 at 00:23. Reason: more text |
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#7 | |
Scandinavian Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stockholm
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But I agree, FCI say you are not as a FCI kennel to mix breed your pure dogs !!! And as I already did say, I think mixing whit wolves are to be done by experts on mixbreeding if it is to be done at all... Best regards / Mikael
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_________________________________________________ *Hronec, Rasty, Zilja * Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html
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#8 | |
Distinguished Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kraków
Posts: 3,509
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If a carpathian wolf blood (because CSV stems from a hybrid of GSD and a CARPATHIAN WOLF!) is to be added to the breed genetic pool: 1. a proper, at least 20-30 year project should be designed, discussed and agreed upon by above mentioned experts and legal authorities including FCI! 2. clear objectives of the project should be stated and made public and transparent 3. institution or a group of people (?) legally responsible for the project implementation would have to be appointed 4. an international "control board" should be appointed. 3. massive funds should be raised/sposnsors found (?) for this purpose including: - foundation of a wofldog park, where all hybrids that for various reasons would not used for further breeding would find shelter and could lead decent lives, - opening of a training station where the "hybrids" would be intensly trained and tested. Only these creatures that pass tough exams and fulfil other tough appearance, character and health criteria could be used for further breeding - well equiped vet clinic should be opened /appointed where the dogs should be carefully examined, also towards genetic diseases. Still one should be aware that there will be high costs of such an "exepriment": e.g. a fresh wolf blood insertion into CSV breed may lead to further bans of the breed in the countries like UK, Sweden etc., I belive that any other ways of mixbreeding CSV with wolves is amateur, secretive, unprofessional and thus wrong -whether conducted in the UK, France, Italy or the Czech Republic (the Mutaragate) or wherever. |
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#9 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 208
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Sorry for the off topic
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![]() A colour which is offcourse frowned apon by GSD-breeders but one that in rare occasions does show its face ![]() ![]() |
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#10 | |
Scandinavian Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,089
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() / Mikael
__________________
_________________________________________________ *Hronec, Rasty, Zilja * Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html
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#11 | |
Non active.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Outside, walking the dog.
Posts: 2,873
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() OK also for here the big "??????" already asked the same "??????" on the Dutchforum ![]() Is it possible this one F1 wolfdog that is in Germany can ever come in the CSW breed and have offspring with a pedigree that says it is a CSW ![]() ![]() ![]() If yes, is this legal ![]() ![]() ![]() If yes, is this also possible in other European country's ![]() ![]() ![]() If yes, is this also possible for other breeds ![]() ![]() ![]() Groette Martine.
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Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away ![]() |
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#12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bad Dürkheim
Posts: 2,249
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If you register the F1 as a CSW his offspring will get normal pedigrees after 4 generations. And if you look up the discussion about Sangria Passo de Lupo you will find out this is not so far away. Ina |
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#13 | |
Non active.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Outside, walking the dog.
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![]() ![]() ![]() You do not have to come with a lot off good reason to do so ![]() ![]() ![]() And ask to the FCI to justify this as correct ![]() ![]() ![]() And there is also not a commisi to aprove this as correct ![]() ![]() ![]() And Sangria is in the future, a Granddad of a lot off CSW ![]() ![]() ![]() I have heard off using dogs instead of the one who is written on the pedigree ![]() But never knew this was possible ![]() It is really absurd ![]() ![]() Groette Martine.
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Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away ![]() |
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#14 | |||||
Moderator
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Maybe I can reply about it then our club is even more open and dirty than the italianone
Yes, just a simple person can make a "pure breed certified" you only need a look like CzW dog and show it to 3 all rounder judge who sometime snever seen the breed before, if they said "ok" so the dog receive the pure breed certified, and can mate as make registered puppies with special pedigree, here, in red collor then the official is blue one. Quote:
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#15 | |
Non active.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Outside, walking the dog.
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Do you also know where I can read more, about this rule of the FCI ![]() Groette Martine.
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Just treat stupid situations like a dog.....If you can't play with it or eat it....... Then just piss on it and walk away ![]() |
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#16 | ||
Moderator
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If nothing is write there so.. all those dogs are illegal by FCI rules, independant of the rules of the country who do it, but FCI seems to be not more than a expensive office.
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#17 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 316
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#18 | |
Scandinavian Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stockholm
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It was hard for Lennart Saarloos and Karel Hartl, way would it be simple now ??? minimum 5 generations from wolf FCI say ! Standard like and supervise breeding by FCI, like the way Rona talk about... In Sweden you will NOT get your CsV or Saarloos peedigee after a normal mating whitout a DNA test that say that the parents is the parents, I do not se how no one here can register a F1 or a new line of CsW as you say can happen i Germany !!! But if, way are you just thinking of a F1 from Paul ??? there is more wolf mixt dogs in Germany then one !!! and I do not se how a American Wolfdog x CsV will be CsV standard like ![]() And I do not think FCI or German kennel club is this stupide as you say ??? But I might be wrong ??? Now I se way Christian is angry !!! but way at Paul ??? way not FCI or the German Kennel club ??? Best regards / Mikael
__________________
_________________________________________________ *Hronec, Rasty, Zilja * Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html
![]() Last edited by Mikael; 09-03-2009 at 23:59. |
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#19 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 316
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#20 | |
Distinguished Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kraków
Posts: 3,509
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So what? There is much, much more to CSV BREED than looks!!! ![]() Which responisble, honest breeder would sell such a creature to anybody as a dog? ![]() |
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