CW in the UK

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by solowolf

the uk kennel club have agreement with FCI regarding breeds but they do not come under FCI ruleing nor does any uk breeder, if you register any pup or litter in uk and it is found to be fraudulent you will be banned from kennel club for life, breeding and showing of any dogs, you also loose your kennel name or affix, as we will never be under FCI regulations in uk, is why we keep our own records of all pure bred cwd. and even at that the uk kennel club will welcome any breed recognised by the FCI to compete in shows in uk, as long as they are not on the dangerous dogs listing in which case they are illegal in the u.k. So while wolfdog.org may condem us as we are not under FCI it again is not our fault, but on the other hand we will welcome any European cwd to u.k. and we will respect there FCI pedigree, it is a pity it dosnt work both ways ,, such is life,,,,, not to worry i will still use my friends European dogs to breed from.

P.S. heres a funny thing but tell the moderaters, as people may ask questions, in 2003 my first czech bitch Lynx legend von rijnecker hof was registered with the uk kennel club,,,, her FCI pedigree was asked for and accepted by the uk kennel club,,, so dont believe all you here on wolfdog.org why the breeders have been removed,,,,, they are telling PORKIES AGAIN......her uk kennel club registration even has her FCI reg number on it???????????

1. this FCI-regulations have nothing to do with if you try to register the dogs or not, it is only about crossbreeding

2. I am sure you are not condemed for not being under FCI-regulations, as it is not necessary to be under FCI regulations to follow the regulations of FCI, commen sense, good moral and ethics

3. no one at WD.org told me this, this is just my own thoughts

I really don`t see what Lynx legend von rijnecker hof or her registration have to do with all of this ? ...unless you did crossbreed her
....maybe I am wrong ???

Greetings Rolf

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by rolf

1. this FCI-regulations have nothing to do with if you try to register the dogs or not, it is only about crossbreeding

2. I am sure you are not condemed for not being under FCI-regulations, as it is not necessary to be under FCI regulations to follow the regulations of FCI, commen sense, good moral and ethics

3. no one at WD.org told me this, this is just my own thoughts

I really don`t see what Lynx legend von rijnecker hof or her registration have to do with all of this ? ...unless you did crossbreed her
....maybe I am wrong ???

Greetings Rolf

hey Rolf theres me thinking you are different untll you again come up with the smart remark unless you did cross breed her,,, and the little funny face, tell u what hope i see u in europe this year ill give you a funny look on your face you are just like all the others with there smart arse remarks and stupid fu..ing little smilies,

[hanninadina]

Paul, sorry to say, you maybe have cwd which you don´t crossbreed. But you did last year a litter with your Timber wolf and cwd! So what do you want? You compare yourself with Hartle and Saarloos but why did you crossbreed an american wolf with an europaen breed cwd? This is what you be blamed for! I have no problem if you have Timber wolf, american wolfdog or whatever. But please northamerican wolves and wolfdogs are on part and have nothing to do with europaen part! These are totally different "breeds"! If you would have taken a carpartian wolf, I think people would maybe understand you. But so?

And what the hell do you think people think of you after pissing french/netherlands kennel of Cory Kayzer? So if you do crossbreeding, do it, but than you have nothing to expect here in the world of csw on wolfdog.org!

Christian

I love csw, and I love too american wolfdogs. But I never ever would crossbreed europaen wolfdogs with american wolves or wolfdogs although I have a canadian wolfdog!

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Paul, sorry to say, you maybe have cwd which you don´t crossbreed. But you did last year a litter with your Timber wolf and cwd! So what do you want? You compare yourself with Hartle and Saarloos but why did you crossbreed an american wolf with an europaen breed cwd? This is what you be blamed for! I have no problem if you have Timber wolf, american wolfdog or whatever. But please northamerican wolves and wolfdogs are on part and have nothing to do with europaen part! These are totally different "breeds"!

Christian

But way not ??? if you cross breed it is better if they have nothing to do whit each other and as many do think me included, Lennart Saarloos did cross in his neighbours Timber Wolf to get the big size and therefore the brown colors in that breed still today

Best regards / Mikael

[hanninadina]

Mikael, Crossbreed means crossing a wolf with a dog! Saarloos people say there is no Timber wolf in Saarloos. The first wolf was a europaen russian wolf which Saarloos took.

It seems that you don´t know much about europaen wolves, do you?! One of the biggest europaen wolf was a carpartian male with 90 cm in shoulder! And the colour? Brown colour, it is the same you find it too by carpartian wolves.

So if I understand you right you would even mix a siberian tiger with an indian tiger, or an indian elephant with an african elephant? Nort american wolves are different. For example they have at least 5 different colours, like black, white, grey, red, brown. Do you find these colours in europaen wolf? No, of course not! Different types but most is grey, with yellow, brown, a bit red, but always look like grey! In grey amercan wolves there are always different colours. They are different from behaviour. Sure for a person like you a wolf is a wolf. Please dream on.

Christian

Crossing a csw with a wolf is not 50 % wolfblood but normally about 65 %. Sure it is mathematics and the case is the F 1 is the main problem. And Paul did sell one of his pups to germany. And it would be not nice if this guy will bring this F 1 in csw population.

[Juniorwolf]

For me problem is not European or American wolf, but about regulations !
If you are a recognized breeder(does`nt matter what breed), you are not allowed to use your pedigree dogs to crossbreeding/mixbreeding, as it will discredit the big work there have been done to create the breed and undermine the the work of the kennel clubs all over, to make sure the recognized breeders is working for the better of the specific breed.
...At least this is how it works in Denmark

For me crossbreeding and mixbreeding is the same, only names are different

Hybrids is really not a valid word to use, when speaking of mix/cross between wolves and domesticated dogs.
From a biological point of weiw, a hybrid is the name of the ofspring from two different species, wolves and domesticated dogs are the same species(eurasian wolf = canis lupus lupus / domesticated dog = canis lupus familiaris)

I like all dogs, wolfdogs more than other dogs and wolves most of all

Greetings Rolf

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Mikael, Crossbreed means crossing a wolf with a dog! Saarloos people say there is no Timber wolf in Saarloos. The first wolf was a europaen russian wolf which Saarloos took.

It seems that you don´t know much about europaen wolves, do you?! One of the biggest europaen wolf was a carpartian male with 90 cm in shoulder! And the colour? Brown colour, it is the same you find it too by carpartian wolves.

So if I understand you right you would even mix a siberian tiger with an indian tiger, or an indian elephant with an african elephant? Nort american wolves are different. For example they have at least 5 different colours, like black, white, grey, red, brown. Do you find these colours in europaen wolf? No, of course not! Different types but most is grey, with yellow, brown, a bit red, but always look like grey! In grey amercan wolves there are always different colours. They are different from behaviour. Sure for a person like you a wolf is a wolf. Please dream on.

Christian

Crossing a csw with a wolf is not 50 % wolfblood but normally about 65 %. Sure it is mathematics and the case is the F 1 is the main problem. And Paul did sell one of his pups to germany. And it would be not nice if this guy will bring this F 1 in csw population.

As Rolf already did say wolf and dog are from the same family not as you say

These are totally different "breeds"! / Christian

And I do not se way the offsprings from the F1 puppy Paul did sell to Germany would end up as a CsV more then the offsprings of a Saarloos, husky, wolf or a GSD in any country from any breeder

But as you did say your self "DREAM ON"

Best regards / Mikael

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

As Rolf already did say wolf and dog are from the same family not as you say

I think you two guy misunderstood eachother....

Christian was writing about european and american wolves are differet breeds ...not wolves and dogs

Mikael animals from same family can be different breeds, don`t mix this up

Wolves belong to the family "Canidae" which also includes :
Canis
Vulpes
Dusicyon
Lycaon
...and more.

The genus type of wolves is "canis" which also includes :
Lupus
Rufus
Latrans
Aureus
Simensis
...and more.

The species of wolves is "canis lupus" which includes :
Lupus(grey wolf) - ancestor of all wolves.

Canis lupus aka grey wolf have some subspecies which includes :
canis lupus lupus(eurasian wolf)
canis lupus lycaon(east american timber wolf)
canis lupus arctos(artic wolf)
canis lupus pallipes(indian wolf)
canis lupus signatus(iberian wolf)
canis lupus occidentalis(canadian wolf)
canis lupus dingo(dingo)
canis lupus familiaris(domesticated dog)
...and more.

Greetings Rolf

[nanouk]

Sorry for the off topic

Lennart Saarloos did cross in his neighbours Timber Wolf to get the big size and therefore the brown colors in that breed still today

Most reliable SWH sources will tell you that Leendert Saarloos DID not cross a Timber into the breed, the brown colour could simply come from the GSD
A colour which is offcourse frowned apon by GSD-breeders but one that in rare occasions does show its face

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by nanouk

Sorry for the off topic


Most reliable SWH sources will tell you that Leendert Saarloos DID not cross a Timber into the breed, the brown colour could simply come from the GSD
A colour which is offcourse frowned apon by GSD-breeders but one that in rare occasions does show its face

I did not say it is a fact, a fact is however that nobody today know if or if not he did mix in that very dog and I as many other think he did, way would he not ??? as Lennart Saarloos was very bad at keeping records I ges we will newer know, if not DNA will tell us in the future a fact is however that there is not to many pure Saarloos in the world today as they are crosst out whit CsV but that is nothing that we do talk about is it... and it is not only in the UK...

/ Mikael

[loco]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

And Paul did sell one of his pups to germany. And it would be not nice if this guy will bring this F 1 in csw population.

OK also for here the big "??????" already asked the same "??????" on the Dutchforum ;
Is it possible this one F1 wolfdog that is in Germany can ever come in the CSW breed and have offspring with a pedigree that says it is a CSW ???
If yes, is this legal ???
If yes, is this also possible in other European country's ???
If yes, is this also possible for other breeds ???


Groette Martine.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by loco

OK also for here the big "??????" already asked the same "??????" on the Dutchforum ;
Is it possible this one F1 wolfdog that is in Germany can ever come in the CSW breed and have offspring with a pedigree that says it is a CSW ???
If yes, is this legal ???
If yes, is this also possible in other European country's ???
If yes, is this also possible for other breeds ???


Groette Martine.

Yes to all ??? because of phenotype registration in FCI, which is sometimes good but mostly bad.
If you register the F1 as a CSW his offspring will get normal pedigrees after 4 generations.
And if you look up the discussion about Sangria Passo de Lupo you will find out this is not so far away.

Ina

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by loco

OK also for here the big "??????" already asked the same "??????" on the Dutchforum ;
Is it possible this one F1 wolfdog that is in Germany can ever come in the CSW breed and have offspring with a pedigree that says it is a CSW ???
If yes, is this legal ???
If yes, is this also possible in other European country's ???
If yes, is this also possible for other breeds ???


Groette Martine.

can i just make one thing very clear to all you people who worry about one of my wolfdogs being used in breedings that may be registered as a CWD, forget about it, the people who own these wolfdogs have no interest at all in the CWD or of owning one, if they did they would have purchased one,,, you would think the CWD and SAARLOOS are the only two types of wolfdogs there is,, very wrong people in Europe, USA,Ireland and UK have been breeding wolfdogs for long time, we had wolfdogs in Ireland when i was young boy some 40 yrs ago, so rest assured the people i breed with and for do not and will never be registering or attempting to register anything we breed as a CWD.

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by solowolf

hey Rolf theres me thinking you are different untll you again come up with the smart remark unless you did cross breed her,,, and the little funny face, tell u what hope i see u in europe this year ill give you a funny look on your face you are just like all the others with there smart arse remarks and stupid fu..ing little smilies,

Hey Paul,
Sorry, but I really do not see my question as a smart remark ?
For me this smiley is a surpriced face, as I really do not know if you have used her for crossbreeding or not, I really don`t read all topics about you as many of them are not constructive, but only people pointing fingers at eachother, but I really did not see what Lynx had to do with the rest of your answer on my post, so since you mention her, ofcourse I must think she have something to do with crossbreeding ...I don`t know, that`s why I ask

I really don`t see my self as all others, I am an induvidual and I write, think and react as an induvidual, no matter how others write, think or react. It was not my intention to piss you off, but to inform you of what I think could be the reason, why your dogs are not displayed here, as you say your self ....it is just a f..ing smiley

Greetings Rolf