Bonitation

[mijke]

Originally Posted by Natalya

probably we can start new topic and discuss this problem there

OK I did start a new topic

I agree with Natalya it is good to have Bonitation for CsW, because then you have at least an instrument to judge a dog conform the standard.

Originally Posted by massimo

sorry but it's not sufficient to have bonitation to be good breeder..and on the other side not only those who mate bonitated dogs are good.

And I agree also with this reply!

Because what Natalya did write:

Originally Posted by Natalya

The only way to state some dog is good or not is its bonitation code.

Is not 100% sure for me!

… for me a Bonitation is not always a real objective instrument for judging a dog!
Also in the Bonitation the personal opinion of an individual judge is probably the most important.

Because why it is otherwise possible that some dogs in database have two different results?
Can anybody tell me why a dog has result: A67 E1 M5 Og P3 and the next month: A68 E3 Of R1 P3?

So in one month this dog
• did grow 1 cm
• his eyes did change from light brown to dark brown
• his not expressive mask did change in a good mask
• his character did change from optimistic/ less courage’s in optimistic/ well balanced
• and his type did become dry

For me this is very amazing
mijke

[Hanka]

What dog? write please name. Thanks

[Kerstin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

What dog? write please name. Thanks

And the next question would be which judges
Actually I don't think it matters.

It happend to many people on dog shows. One day a dog is excellent, the next day a dog is good and a month later he is very good. Sometimes even at the same judge

So this does not suprise me anymore. And because every judge has a different taste and opinion you have different results all the time. I bet if you have 3 dogs- 3 judges you will have 9 different results in the end. Thats a shame, but that's the way it is. I know very good judges and I know it is a hard job, but sometimes I wonder...

Regards,
Kerstin

[mijke]

And this is how a CsW living in Holland is reacting when his owner is watching video movies of Bonitation:

"what do I hear"



"That's interesting view"



"I want to see more"




"I am glad I am alone and I can see what it is all about by myself"

[/img]

"Why does not all CsW's have a laptop for him self????"

[Rona]

Originally Posted by mijke

"Why does not all CsW's have a laptop for him self????"

But of course they do!

[mijke]

Sorry!!!

I am still an old fashioned Dutch CsW owner!

But I'll arange it too and make using of the laptop also more comfortable for my dog!
So she can enjoy it like your dog

[Rona]

Originally Posted by mijke

But I'll arange it too and make using of the laptop also more comfortable for my dog!
So she can enjoy it like your dog

Tina requires comfort and facilities because she's very old... Advanced age has certain rights, doesn't it....

Mijke, the photos are great!

[saschia]

Originally Posted by mijke

So in one month this dog
• did grow 1 cm
• his eyes did change from light brown to dark brown
• his not expressive mask did change in a good mask
• his character did change from optimistic/ less courage’s in optimistic/ well balanced
• and his type did become dry

Well this might be because in Slovakia the R is a part of bonitation code (R1 being the most correct one), while in Czech it is only when the type is wrong, i think.

The definition of light-brown and dark-brown eye is not very precise, so it depends on the judge, what is his opersonal opinion, and it can be also influenced by light.

The height written in code depends on how people measured it, and of course measurement of static object is subject to errors, so what do you expect in living moving dog? Of course if the height is on the edge, than it is more important to measure it very precisely, then when it is in "safe zone" as in this dog.

The character might also appear at different times and to different judges. The dog does not behave the same way all the time. We don't behave the same way every time. So again, it is understandable, and the special attention should be paid if the result greatly affects usability of dog in breeding.

The most problematic in this example I see the mask, as it should be much clearer, when it is well defined and when not. And the not well expressed mask is not good.

So of course there is some differnce in bonitation code, but ideally it shouldn't be affected by judge opinions.

Other thing completely:

Originally Posted by Kerstin

It happend to many people on dog shows. One day a dog is excellent, the next day a dog is good and a month later he is very good. Sometimes even at the same judge

We are talking here about bonitations and not shows. Show is about the momentary appearance of the dog, and its comparison to other dogs. Of course, also bad thing is that lot of judges in show are not competent. But the show is more about personal preferences also in competent judges and it is OK, if it is not against the standard.

But bonitation is (or should be) performed by judges who are competent, have many personal experiences with the breed and ideally should be completely impersonal. And, they don't compare dogs among themselves, they state how the dog looks in comparison to standard.

[Hanka]

Hello Mijke, write please what dog do you mean. Without name nobody can answer you about this case. Thanks, Hanka

[tikaani]

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/picture...ureid=3267ould

this is kaya.

hi, i was wondering were the nerest place to the uk would be to get bonititions dun? and has any one got a list of how to messure the hight, like from front paw to shoulder or top of ear etc? thank for any help