czws in uk. please respond

[solowolf]

hi, as some of you are aware for over 2yrs i have been fighting defra and the kennel club to get the law changed in uk regarding the czws, i will be allowed to have my say with defra very soon, i have been in contact with the international veterinary group in u.k and they have agreed i have a very good case to ask for the czws to be removed from the dangerous wild animal list, recently i have recieved e mails from persons unknowen saying that people from europe dont want or need the czws in the u.k these emails could be from people who do not like the kennels i stayed at in france, if so let me assure you i have nothing and want nothing to do with these kennels or the mall practice that goes on there, when my wife and i discovered certain things in france we left,,,,,,, i have given hundreds of hours writting letters and the same on the phone fighting for the czws in uk, i have refused to give the kennel club my registration papers back, i have refused to let my dogs be treated as dangerous wild animals under the law, and i am prepared if nessesary to go to jail rather than give up on my dogs, i would like wolfdog.org to set up a vote as i want to see if i have support from europe and the breed clubs to continue my fight, i would like to know do you think the czws should be in uk, mr r winder pacino kennels u.k

[Rona]

Paul,
I'm sorry I don't quite understand the purpose of your survey. Why should anybody have anything against CzWs in the UK? If they can be successfully bred in many European countries, why should UK be excluded from the list? We all know that CzWs ARE dogs, we all know that they are very special - Gaga put it nicely that in comparison with well socialised CzWs, dogs of other breeds seem a bit autistic . Personally I see no reason why CzWs should be banned from the UK if MUCH more dangerous breeds are allowed there. I know somebody here in Poland who has a very good job opportunity in UK and would like to spend a couple of years there, but he is afraid to take his CzW with him. Absurd, isn't it?

There are cases of insensitive, stupid, incompetent or greedy breeders everywhere in the world, not only in France or potentially in the UK, and they breed not only CzWs. What's more, there are probably fewer such cases among CzWs breeders, since the dogs are not easy to raise and handle by beginners and, thanks God, the breed is not dramatically popular.

But when DEFRA finally agrees to legitimise CzW in the UK the first British breeders will bear great responsibility at least to try to control who buys the pups so that the dogs do not fall into hands of immature or irresponsible owners who know nothing about the breed and just want to act as "walking with wolves"


By the way, has Annika contacted you? I wish you all the best in your struggle with Defra. From what I know about British administration (I used to live in England) it is very dificult to break through their mental barriers, but once it's done, they claim it was their original idea. I suppose in about 50 years time there will be attempts to change the CzW into "British Wolfdogs"

[solowolf]

hi Rona, thanks for your reply as you can see i am getting no response to my mail or vote, Annika has not contacted me, i was not surprised, talk is cheap, i know all the top vets in defra as i have been in contact with everyone of them, there are unfortunately lots of Annikas in uk, but when it comes to helping you it seems they do not come forward, or maybe they do not know anyone in defra at all ? thank you best regards paul

[Nebulosa]

I believe that you, alone can't make big changes, you really need help for the people that live in UK and like ( really like) the CzWs, I see baddly or lack union for make one strong group?

Is nomal the people want one breed, say that really like and know the breed in question, but wen the breed need help and "hard work", these people "disapear", not wank help, really they not want have "work", for have the dog all wants, work for help hers 90% disapear or say that can't.


Greetings


Paula

[Mosi]

these people "disapear", not wank help,

I hope you meant want!

Anyway, I do agree with Nebulosa, there should be a UK organisation for the czech wolfdog, for all fanciers of the breed in the UK to congregate and become a big group.
I'm sorry that Annika didnt contact you

I think we do have a real problem with defra, and mis-information as we all know which is a real issue that needs confronting. As Czech Wolfdogs are uncommon and there is little literature offline about them, you could say the same thing about the Saarloos but at least they are mentioned in many dog reference guides, where as the Czech are not.

I think Defra really needs a plain guide as to the Czech wolfdog, with its background, standard and perhaps case studys of others dogs, I've seen so many beautiful photos of the Czech wolfdog with children!

Me and a friend were considering building a website for the czech wolfdog based in the UK. However both as young and students its very difficult, and we both feel that the best person to be the head of a club would be the person with the most experience, that being you Paul. Im sure something can be arranged, but what we really need is more people coming forward.

Basically, I feel that Defra has problems with the dangerous dogs act altogether, I understand that Pit Bull Types, (as gorgeous and beautifully natured as they are) can fall into ill hands (drug dealers, dog fighters) then beautiful dogs can become dangerous dogs, I think the UK is worried more about this dogs strentgh than temperament.
Then theres the Dogo that is banned, purely because it looks like A pit bull, (despite the fact its a herding dog...) making an very rare breed even rarer.
However the Czech Wolfdog has neither the Pit Bull type strength, and is build (similarly) to a Huskyish GSD type, (best I can describe it!) and neither are banned are they. This is the main thing I cant really get over! The Czech wolfdog is nothing like the other 3 banned types , The Pit Bull (type) The Dogo Argentino, or the Tosa Inu (Fila Brasilio).

I wish you all the best of luck Paul, and hope that everything with Defra is over soon, and when the time comes I too will have the dogs I want!
Im sure the wait will be worth it.

Mosi

[Nebulosa]

I hope you meant want!

Yes, of course!

However the Czech Wolfdog has neither the Pit Bull type strength, and is build (similarly) to a Huskyish GSD type, (best I can describe it!) and neither are banned are they

For that I reading, the problem of the CzW in the Uk, is because they have one % ( matematical) of wolfblood above of the allowed ( 0% :P ), the CzW for Uk is considered one "hybrid low-content"

Basically, I feel that Defra has problems with the dangerous dogs act altogether, I understand that Pit Bull Types, (as gorgeous and beautifully natured as they are) can fall into ill hands (drug dealers, dog fighters) then beautiful dogs can become dangerous dogs, I think the UK is worried more about this dogs strentgh than temperament

I believe that one responsible ownership contract with one "strong law" can help to prevent that these dogs fall in stupids hands.


Paula

[*myschievous*]

definitely keep fighting...

[Nebulosa]

11 people vote, and only 5 post here
This topic go stop?!

[*myschievous*]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

11 people vote, and only 5 post here
This topic go stop?!

It's a shame isn't it It would have been nice to see more interest in the thread

Paul, any new news as yet?...How are things?...What have you decided to do next?...

[Mosi]

^

I think there is interest, just sometimes people don't know what to say. Even I'm a little stuck on what to say about this topic.
I looked back on the online petition I started, gosh it must have been 2004/early 2005 as the deadline has long gone. In fact it was MAY 2004! almost 2 whole years ago, I cant believe how fast time has gone. Im wondering how all the pups that where born are doing, I bet there all so grown up!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takea...ltl=1144695365

as you can see from that there is a lot of support..


A little offtopic slightly, but Paul did you go to crufts this year? I think I read that you were planning to go?

and even more offtopic myschievous the photos of your dogs are very nice, ive been looking at your site

Does anyone have any idea how many dogs are titled in Obedience? or Canine Good Citisen, that could be a factor in showing that the lovely czech isnt some wild monster.

[Mirkawolf]

Paul,

I think there is more people interested in the Defra problem. Just they do not know what to say. I also do not know what to say to this neverending problem.

We all know CSW is no wolf-hybrid. We all know it is normal FCI recognised breed, with official pedigree and so on. However, institutions as DEFRA or the American kennel Club just refuse to accept this. They have no experiences with the breed and it seems they do not want to have it. And they are quite stubborn about the whole thing.

Maybe if you could ask for some concrete kind of help, you´d get more responses.

My husband was offered several times a good job in UK, but we cannot go. Because we have two CSW´s and we do not want to have problems with Defra! Neither we will give up the dogs. So it touches us, too.

[J.P]

Hi Paul and Mandy,
Its great to know you are still fighting for the right to have czws in the uk. I spoke to you regarding Lynx's pups which seems like a life time ago now, I hope they are all doing well, especially little Hector, I haven't visited this site for such a long time after the problems with the kennel club etc. all hope of these dogs in uk dissapeared along with you (or so it seemed) and your website went off line I think maybe a lot of people thought you had left the country and given up hope.
A couple of previous posts have said there is still a lot of interest but nobody knows exactly what to do to help you I agree. I know you were going to get a uk based czw club going which I know Connor was supposed to have been doing the website etc. for, did anybody show an interest? I know I did but after Connors death I never heard anything else about this.
I have voted on the poll and on Mosi's petition when it was started lets hope they are of some use.
Have you thought of getting in touch with dogs today magazine or something similar or do you think this may attract to much of the wrong kind of attention and possibly people.
Any way good luck keep up the hard work.
JP.

[Mosi]

^

Have you thought of getting in touch with dogs today magazine or something similar

I think thats a very good Idea, I know that a few months ago they had a story about a guy who had to move to america to have Pit Bull. They do seem against the BSL (which doesnt work at all...)

Connor was supposed to have been doing the website etc. for, did anybody show an interest?

I was thinking about this the other day, In my IT class at college we needed to look into domain names, well Connor bought www.wolfdog.co.uk
Of course he died but he still 'owned' the name
Now the 2 years are up and its buyable again. Im not too bad at webdesign and have lots of friends who can help, if you wanted a site being knocked up I really wouldnt mind helping!

[Czunksolov]

Um, I might be showing how stupid i am but.... How the hell do you vote? I'd like to vote yes to wanting the CSV in UK. For selfish reasons. I might want to have one, one day, if i decide that they are the best breed for me. I can't say that I'm really bothered whether anyone else can have one as I don't know what any of you want a CSV for? UK is a shitty place with shitty weather, too much traffic, too many people, too many stupid rules, so I think CSVs are probably better off in Europe. So am I. I'd like to get out of UK but it looks like there is still no chance of getting a passport for the next couple of years at least. So although I want to be allowed to choose for myself which dog i live with, I still want to keep 99% of people away from them. The more fond of them I become, the more protective of them I feel. I want to keep them secret or at least very exclusive. No-one needs to be told about the CSV out of the blue or have it suggested to them that they should go out and get a CSV when they weren't already on that path. If you need one you'll find the breed on t'internet, and find the website. If you don't need one? There are plenty of PET breeds out there that are similar. I'd rather people found THEM first. Back to the subject of action, I think it is quite tricky to prove that CSV is "pure canis familiaris" when DEFRA chooses only to recognise "science" that suits it's objective. It may be far easier to prove that all the German Shepherd Dogs that the cops use to "arrest" civilians are, by the same rules, DWAs and must be immediately destroyed unless a change in law is made. What do you think would be a sensible limit to the lowest progeny number? Are all CSVs above F20 yet?

[Mosi]

UK is a shitty place with shitty weather, too much traffic, too many people, too many stupid rules, so I think CSVs are probably better off in Europe.

LOL. Wales is a shitty place
I noticed you live in Prestatyn, im in Porthcawl so not too far away XD
To make this not as offtopic, i also agree with a progeny number

I still want to keep 99% of people away from them. The more fond of them I become, the more protective of them I feel. I want to keep them secret or at least very exclusive. No-one needs to be told about the CSV out of the blue or have it suggested

Im not sure if I agree or disagree with this, I think part of the problem is that people are unknowledgeable about this breed - but I guess what you are saying is that you dont want it to become fad like.
I agree with that, I'd hate to see people breeding these badly and with no knowledge, id also hate to see CSV or CSV crosses in rescue centers dotted around the country as people have no clue how to look after them.
I hate how people love to breed crap 'breeds' at the moment, lovely Puggles and PomerPoos and Labradoodles, O.o then try to palm them off as a genuine breed for hundreds.
Where as the lovely rare GSD X whateverjumpedoverthegatelastnight gets put to sleep all over the country because rescue centers cant find them homes.
(ends rant)

[Excalibur-Sauvignon]

Keep up the good work, get the twh and swh of that list.

Freddie, Tessa.

The Netherlands