When a dwarf is born

mijke · 08-02-2010, 18:20

Pituitary dwarfism exists also in CsW breed and we know several dwarfs in different countries from different lines.

In other topics on wolfdog I did give info about this disease and the possibility of a test for pituitary dwarfism. http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10756

When a CsW is carrier it is not any problem, this dog will not get pituitary dwarfism.
You also can breed without problems, you only have to make a combination with a Free dog and no dwarfs will be born.

But because yet only a few CsW's are tested, still dwarfs will be born.
So I also will give some info for owners and breeders of dwarfs.

When a dwarf is born an owner/breeder can think about a few options:

Keep it yourself without treatment
Keep it yourself with treatment (and you have to find a university or well specialized vet who can measure hormone values and who has the possibility to give thyroxine and p GH)
Euthanize the dwarf in the country of your own when the dwarf becomes ill and suffers
Euthanize the dwarf in Holland (The university did ask me to tell you all this option too).
Adoption in Holland by the new Dutch Dwarfism Foundation where a dwarf can get treatment

About medication for a dwarf:
Any defect in the development of the pituitary gland causes a lack in producing hormones. And most dogs with pituitary dwarfism has a lack of these hormones GH, TSH, PRL, FSH, LH, ACTH.
That is why a dog with Pituitary Dwarfism have to be treated with a combination of GH (grow hormone) and thyroid hormone.
But it is not possible to treat a dwarf with canine GH, because it is not available for medical use.

But porcine GH (of pigs) is identical to canine GH, and a good alternative for treatment.
I don't know if porcine GH is available in other countries

About dwarfs without treatment:
Some dwarfs without treatment can become between 4 and 5 year old. But there is a huge individual difference.
Because some dwarfs still produces a bit of GH of their own!
And their prognoses also it depends of how their kidneys were developed because of this.
Because the progression of kidney failure is also important for the age a dwarf can reach.
The Dutch university did even know a dwarf that did become 10 years old without treatment, because his kidneys did function (because of his own producing of GH) His only problems were bold skin and skin inflammation.
So nobody can ever predict what age an individual dwarf can reach.

About treatment:
The Dutch university knows after years of research that giving a combination of thyroid hormone in combination with porcine pGH is giving good results.
With giving the pGH in the first year they stimulate the kidneys of a dwarf to develop in a normal way.
They did find out that start with giving pGH after the first year did not have any results and influence on the kidneys anymore.
And when the kidneys did not develop (and grow)the first year in the right way, this cannot be treated anymore with medicines. (The lack of development of kidneys causes a lot of problems for dwarfs)
So the Dutch university only starts with treating very young dwarfs with giving pGH in combination with thyorid hormone.

About the research:
The Dutch university is still doing research about treatment and the development of the dwarfs. And so they treat dwarfs of some breeds on this moment.
But for their research they also need pituitary's of dwarfs, so they can do more investigation of the dwarf process and see what is exactly going wrong in the pituitary.
And this research of pituitary's can be a great help for dwarfs (and human) in future.
And that is why they did ask me to ask all owners of dwarfs to help them also with this research.
So when you dwarf is very ill and you have to make sad decisions or consider to euthanatize, please contact me!
And we can also speak about the possibilities to euthanatize in the Dutch university (because then your dwarf can also be great help for other dwarfs)

About adoption and treatment in Holland
Last month the Dutch Dwarf foundation "Saartje" was founded. This foundations will give info about dwarfism in dog breeds and the possibility of testing.
Besides this they also offer dwarf dogs a new home and treatment.
So an owner of a dwarf can donate the dwarf for free to the foundation. And the foundation will become the new owner of the dwarf and will take care for treatment and will pay for this.

I hope I could help dwarf owners/breeders a bit with all this info

When you still have questions, just contact me! [email protected]

sciamalaia · 08-02-2010, 18:28

Thank you Mijke for this Thread.

Hanka · 09-02-2010, 14:43

If somebody can translate it to poland or other language, be so friendly, please.

wolfin · 09-02-2010, 17:46

I think polish people can read english

without problem

like and others who interesing too.

mijke · 09-02-2010, 19:05

I wish this was true!

)))

But not everybody is as language smart as you!

Also in my country a lot of people don't understand and can't read English!

So a lot of time I translate for some people topics of the English forum

wolfin · 09-02-2010, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke

I wish this was true!

)))

But not everybody is as language smart as you!

Also in my country a lot of people don't understand and can't read English!

So a lot of time I translate for some people topics of the English forum

I know, who interesing about this, can used translator or search moore info in google.
We have only 5 or 6 thema, only in english forum about dwarf, I think now all people in WD know who this is.
p.s. Mijke You are great

only maybe better all info have in one thema not in 5 or 6?

mijke · 10-02-2010, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfin

Ip.s. Mijke You are great

only maybe better all info have in one thema not in 5 or 6?

The reason that I did make a new topic for this, is that in the other topics was info about dwarfism and the test.
This is only about what an owner can do when a dwarf is born.

And when there are a lot of comments in a topic, a lot of people miss the original info.

But it is not any problem for me when the moderator wants to make 1 topic of all the info about dwarfism.

And maybe it is an idea to make only of the info and the possibility of every test a sticky topic.
So everyone can find direct the info how they can test for a disease

Mikael · 10-02-2010, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke

This is only about what an owner can do when a dwarf is born.

And when there are a lot of comments in a topic, a lot of people miss the original info.

Agree 100%

I think this topic is better as it is = separate and alone

Thanks Mijke !

Very best regards / Mikael

Hanka · 11-02-2010, 08:50

Daiva, not all people understand english. And you can see- for example Graba- pleased about translating.

koboldine · 11-02-2010, 13:06

Thanks Mijke - I think it is important to breeder/owner to see that there is help available. And - even if it becomes necessary to lay the dog down - it may help others as well.

z Peronówki · 11-02-2010, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Daiva, not all people understand english. And you can see- for example Graba- pleased about translating.

It was the same with Czech version.... there was no translation for a long time...

First thanks to Marianka, leila and saschia the Czech and Slovakian people had finally the chance to understand it...

You had not time to make it so I hope you will understand that it is the same case with Lithiuanian and Polish version

(in the second case I would like to say again THANK YOU to Rona for great work!)

Nebulosa · 11-02-2010, 23:19

Mijke, a long time I had saw a very small ammount pituitary glands of addult dwarfs in biopsy, some of them were visibly different even in size and format, I would like to know, for those breeders who lost one or two puppies in litter, would be possible by a necropsy see if it was the pituitary gland of a dwarf pup?

mijke · 13-02-2010, 10:09

Yesterday I did try to reach the specialist of the university, but it did not work out. But monday I'll speak him and I'll also ask for this possiblity

mijke · 19-02-2010, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Mijke, a long time I had saw a very small ammount pituitary glands of addult dwarfs in biopsy, some of them were visibly different even in size and format, I would like to know, for those breeders who lost one or two puppies in litter, would be possible by a necropsy see if it was the pituitary gland of a dwarf pup?

With histology it can't be proved it is pituitary dwarfism.

You only can have strong suggestions it maybe is.
Most of the time the pituitary of dwarfs has cystic deformations and relative less pituitary tissue
But also normal dogs can have cystic deformations in the pituitary.

martiou07 · 07-02-2011, 14:25

Hi Mijke,

I received your email where you me requests of the news of my small, afflicted, have time to answer, I unite you this link towards the French forum (I will share his evolution) where you will be able to see photographs there.

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...56786&langid=7

is funny the conclusions that I had recently… ignorance….

our small is very well, is a super puppy our CSW toy

her mother still has a relation very maternal with him

to finish, I am very grateful to you of your councils to you and Margo, as, I think as I would still need to bring me closer to you regularly in order to offer the best to him

mijke · 07-02-2011, 15:28

Thanks for this link!

In the meantime also 5 other CsW dwarfs were born in several countries.
A few of them will come to Holland for treatment and research.

martiou07 · 07-02-2011, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke

Thanks for this link!

In the meantime also 5 other CsW dwarfs were born in several countries.
A few of them will come to Holland for treatment and research.

with their agreement of course, can you give me their address email in order to correspond with them, is always well to know the various experiments...

yukidomari · 08-02-2011, 02:44

Hello Mijke & Martiou,

I had a question about dwarf CsV. I read this thread and also the other thread "Pituitary Dwarfism test for CsW is available!" about Dwarfism, and I saw that there were some other associated conditions such fur or skin problems, kidney and liver problems, etc.

I have read in passing before that pituitary dwarfism may also affect behavior or mental development, and was wondering if you can provide input on this from your experiences.

Thank you!!

Best regards,

Jing

Hanka · 08-02-2011, 08:52

Hello Jing, the dwarf dog is absolutly normal in thinkink. No different between dwarf and normal dogs.

André · 08-02-2011, 12:11

After his birth, when is possible to detect a dog is a dwarf? How many weeks/months to be sure?

08-02-2010, 18:20	#1
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	When a dwarf is born Pituitary dwarfism exists also in CsW breed and we know several dwarfs in different countries from different lines. In other topics on wolfdog I did give info about this disease and the possibility of a test for pituitary dwarfism. http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10756 When a CsW is carrier it is not any problem, this dog will not get pituitary dwarfism. You also can breed without problems, you only have to make a combination with a Free dog and no dwarfs will be born. But because yet only a few CsW's are tested, still dwarfs will be born. So I also will give some info for owners and breeders of dwarfs. When a dwarf is born an owner/breeder can think about a few options: Keep it yourself without treatment Keep it yourself with treatment (and you have to find a university or well specialized vet who can measure hormone values and who has the possibility to give thyroxine and p GH) Euthanize the dwarf in the country of your own when the dwarf becomes ill and suffers Euthanize the dwarf in Holland (The university did ask me to tell you all this option too). Adoption in Holland by the new Dutch Dwarfism Foundation where a dwarf can get treatment About medication for a dwarf: Any defect in the development of the pituitary gland causes a lack in producing hormones. And most dogs with pituitary dwarfism has a lack of these hormones GH, TSH, PRL, FSH, LH, ACTH. That is why a dog with Pituitary Dwarfism have to be treated with a combination of GH (grow hormone) and thyroid hormone. But it is not possible to treat a dwarf with canine GH, because it is not available for medical use. But porcine GH (of pigs) is identical to canine GH, and a good alternative for treatment. I don't know if porcine GH is available in other countries About dwarfs without treatment: Some dwarfs without treatment can become between 4 and 5 year old. But there is a huge individual difference. Because some dwarfs still produces a bit of GH of their own! And their prognoses also it depends of how their kidneys were developed because of this. Because the progression of kidney failure is also important for the age a dwarf can reach. The Dutch university did even know a dwarf that did become 10 years old without treatment, because his kidneys did function (because of his own producing of GH) His only problems were bold skin and skin inflammation. So nobody can ever predict what age an individual dwarf can reach. About treatment: The Dutch university knows after years of research that giving a combination of thyroid hormone in combination with porcine pGH is giving good results. With giving the pGH in the first year they stimulate the kidneys of a dwarf to develop in a normal way. They did find out that start with giving pGH after the first year did not have any results and influence on the kidneys anymore. And when the kidneys did not develop (and grow)the first year in the right way, this cannot be treated anymore with medicines. (The lack of development of kidneys causes a lot of problems for dwarfs) So the Dutch university only starts with treating very young dwarfs with giving pGH in combination with thyorid hormone. About the research: The Dutch university is still doing research about treatment and the development of the dwarfs. And so they treat dwarfs of some breeds on this moment. But for their research they also need pituitary's of dwarfs, so they can do more investigation of the dwarf process and see what is exactly going wrong in the pituitary. And this research of pituitary's can be a great help for dwarfs (and human) in future. And that is why they did ask me to ask all owners of dwarfs to help them also with this research. So when you dwarf is very ill and you have to make sad decisions or consider to euthanatize, please contact me! And we can also speak about the possibilities to euthanatize in the Dutch university (because then your dwarf can also be great help for other dwarfs) About adoption and treatment in Holland Last month the Dutch Dwarf foundation "Saartje" was founded. This foundations will give info about dwarfism in dog breeds and the possibility of testing. Besides this they also offer dwarf dogs a new home and treatment. So an owner of a dwarf can donate the dwarf for free to the foundation. And the foundation will become the new owner of the dwarf and will take care for treatment and will pay for this. I hope I could help dwarf owners/breeders a bit with all this info When you still have questions, just contact me! [email protected] __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!! Last edited by mijke; 08-02-2010 at 21:22.

09-02-2010, 14:43	#3
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	If somebody can translate it to poland or other language, be so friendly, please. Last edited by Hanka; 09-02-2010 at 15:01.

09-02-2010, 17:46	#4
wolfin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Where the wolf lives Posts: 6,095	I think polish people can read english without problem like and others who interesing too. __________________

09-02-2010, 19:05	#5
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	I wish this was true! ))) But not everybody is as language smart as you! Also in my country a lot of people don't understand and can't read English! So a lot of time I translate for some people topics of the English forum __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

11-02-2010, 13:06	#10
koboldine Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 472	Thanks Mijke - I think it is important to breeder/owner to see that there is help available. And - even if it becomes necessary to lay the dog down - it may help others as well. __________________ Kein Mensch darf mir meine Schwächen so deutlich zeigen, wie meine (Wolfs-)Hunde es tun.

08-02-2010, 18:28	#2
sciamalaia Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Mestre Posts: 2,300	Thank you Mijke for this Thread.

11-02-2010, 08:50	#9
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Daiva, not all people understand english. And you can see- for example Graba- pleased about translating.

11-02-2010, 23:19	#12
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	Mijke, a long time I had saw a very small ammount pituitary glands of addult dwarfs in biopsy, some of them were visibly different even in size and format, I would like to know, for those breeders who lost one or two puppies in litter, would be possible by a necropsy see if it was the pituitary gland of a dwarf pup? __________________

13-02-2010, 10:09	#13
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	Yesterday I did try to reach the specialist of the university, but it did not work out. But monday I'll speak him and I'll also ask for this possiblity __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

07-02-2011, 14:25	#15
martiou07 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: France Posts: 1,986	Hi Mijke, I received your email where you me requests of the news of my small, afflicted, have time to answer, I unite you this link towards the French forum (I will share his evolution) where you will be able to see photographs there. http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...56786&langid=7 is funny the conclusions that I had recently… ignorance…. our small is very well, is a super puppy our CSW toy her mother still has a relation very maternal with him to finish, I am very grateful to you of your councils to you and Margo, as, I think as I would still need to bring me closer to you regularly in order to offer the best to him __________________

07-02-2011, 15:28	#16
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	Thanks for this link! In the meantime also 5 other CsW dwarfs were born in several countries. A few of them will come to Holland for treatment and research. __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!! Last edited by mijke; 07-02-2011 at 15:31.

08-02-2011, 02:44	#18
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	Hello Mijke & Martiou, I had a question about dwarf CsV. I read this thread and also the other thread "Pituitary Dwarfism test for CsW is available!" about Dwarfism, and I saw that there were some other associated conditions such fur or skin problems, kidney and liver problems, etc. I have read in passing before that pituitary dwarfism may also affect behavior or mental development, and was wondering if you can provide input on this from your experiences. Thank you!! Best regards, Jing

08-02-2011, 08:52	#19
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Hello Jing, the dwarf dog is absolutly normal in thinkink. No different between dwarf and normal dogs.

08-02-2011, 12:11	#20
André Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 76	After his birth, when is possible to detect a dog is a dwarf? How many weeks/months to be sure?