Height and weight

[Vaiva]

Didn't want to make a new topic, so I hope my question will suit here.
Could anyone please explain me the meanings of Height Index and Format Index?.. What are the "right" numbers and how are they counted? I didn't find anything about it o CsW standart...

Thanks in advance.

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Could anyone please explain me the meanings of Height Index and Format Index?..

Index of height is a proportion between the length of front legs and height in withers (length of leg*100/height). As wolfdogs should be long-legged, and the standard says that the length of front legs should be 55% of heigt of the dog, this index should be between 54-55 for P1 dog.

Index of format say if the dog is of right format. The standard says it should be around 9:10 (height:length). It is counted as height in withers*100/length of the dog (measured from the front of breast to the end of pelvic bone below tail). The correct number should be between 109-111, longer dog cannot be P1, but smaller numbers do not decrease the evaluation as much as the index of height.

There is a new index, which the slovak club introduced this summer, and that is index of head. The standard says that the proportion between the muzzle and skull should be 1:1.5. We are now planning to evaluate this index in the already measured dogs to find out what numbers should be acceptable.

[Vaiva]

Thanks for your explanation. It is clear now

[Stine]

I have been reading the standard and there is something I don't understand.

Some of you said that af CwZ could have a weight that says 40 kg, but in the standard it says 26 kilo gram for males and 20 kilo gram for females. Is there something I don't understand?

I now that the standard is not always how it really is, but there is a 20 kilo gram difference here.

How about the height is that wrong to? it says 65 centimeters for males and 60 centimeters for females.

[Rona]

HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
Height at Withers:
Dogs at least 65 cm
Bitches at least 60 cm
Weight:
Dogs at least 26 kg
Bitches at least 20 kg

At least = minimum

[soniakanavle]

I'm not sure why the standard says they're so small... I've often wondered about that as well haha. No CsV that I've met is so small...
My 5 year old male is 100lb (45 kilogram) and 27inches (68 centimeter) at the shoulder and is in perfect shape (not an ounce of fat on him!)
I know females are quite a bit smaller than the males but still a large breed of dog!!
I know it's just the minimum requirements, but I don't know how you COULD breed a GSD and a wolf together and get that small of a dog..

[jefta]

Originally Posted by soniakanavle

I know it's just the minimum requirements, but I don't know how you COULD breed a GSD and a wolf together and get that small of a dog..

but GSD is smaller than CSV

The German Shepherd Dog is of medium size [...]

Dogs : Height at the withers: 60 to 65 cm.
Weight : 30 to 40 kg.
Bitches : Height at the withers : 55 to 60 cm.
Weight : 22 to 32 kg.

[soniakanavle]

Originally Posted by jefta

but GSD is smaller than CSV

Yes..... I know that.... But breed a GSD and a wolf and you get a dog bigger than a GSD right???
My GSD bitch was 24 inches (60 centimeters) and about 75 pounds (34 kg)
Maybe as with most breeds when they come over, they're bigger in the US?? Like goldfish??

[Silvester]

Hmmmm..... you must not forget that in USA nearly everything has the tendency to grow a little bigger than in Europe...

For example the streets , cars, sky-scrapers , the depts and credits
and sometimes also the people -

and the people´s belly and bum too... (only a joke, don´t misunderstand!)

Why Csw should be an exception ?

[soniakanavle]

Originally Posted by Silvester

Hmmmm..... you must not forget that in USA nearly everything has the tendency to grow a little bigger than in Europe...

For example the streets , cars, sky-scrapers , the depts and credits
and sometimes also the people -

and the people´s belly and bum too... (only a joke, don´t misunderstand!)

Why Csw should be an exception ?

Hahaha totally! And don't worry, no offense taken!!

[Hanka]

A few of statistic datas:
Youth presentation: 2008 -average height of males was 66,9 cm
average height of females was 62 cm
Bonitation: 2008 -average height of males was 67,9 cm (total 17 males)
average height of females was 63,6 cm (total 26 fem.)

Youth presentation: 2009 - average height of males was 67,7 cm
average height of females was 61,7 cm
Bonitation: 2009 - average height of males was 68,5 cm (total 32 males)
average height of females was 62,6 cm (total 37 fem.)

These datas are only from Czech republic!!!!

[Stine]

Originally Posted by Hanka

A few of statistic datas:
Youth presentation: 2008 -average height of males was 66,9 cm
average height of females was 62 cm
Bonitation: 2008 -average height of males was 67,9 cm (total 17 males)
average height of females was 63,6 cm (total 26 fem.)

Youth presentation: 2009 - average height of males was 67,7 cm
average height of females was 61,7 cm
Bonitation: 2009 - average height of males was 68,5 cm (total 32 males)
average height of females was 62,6 cm (total 37 fem.)

These datas are only from Czech republic!!!!

As I can see the males ae growing bigger and the females are getting smaller.

It's the same with the amstaff it's getting bigger to, but not only the males also the females. And since the judge will have them bigger they keep getting bigger.

[Hanka]

But it is only 2008 and 2009 . I have not here datas from history. But i think it is always + - the same.....

[saschia]

elf made a nice statistics about height distribution, it is here: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...0&postcount=46

I want to make 3-D graphs from these data (as that would show the development of height distribution in time), but had no time for that, unfortunately...

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by soniakanavle

My 5 year old male is 100lb (45 kilogram) and 27inches (68 centimeter) at the shoulder and is in perfect shape (not an ounce of fat on him!)

I do not know the perfect weight for a male at 68cm, but I think it is about 35kg. 38kg might be a OK weight for a older not training CsV that is 68cm ? but not 45kg.

My boy is about 72cm and has now a weight on 36,5kg that is a bit to slim, I’m trying to get him to about 37,5-38,5kg. But he runs it all off all the time

I think whit any healthy average age CsV you are to be able to run 40km, you can not do that whit a CsV that is 68cm and has a weight on 45kg.

He might not look fat, but he is definitely not in perfect shape. (Standard shape)

Best regards / Mikael

[Gaga]

you're right, my dog is over 70 cm and when he passed the exam SVP1 his weight was 42 kg. Only muscles remember what is important:a body-building (strong bones-or delicate). But I agree: 68 cm and 45 kg are not good proportions.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Stine

I have been reading the standard and there is something I don't understand.

Some of you said that af CwZ could have a weight that says 40 kg, but in the standard it says 26 kilo gram for males and 20 kilo gram for females. Is there something I don't understand?

I think what they trying to say is that a female at 60cm are not allowed to weigh under 20kg, and a male at 65cm are not allowed to weigh under 26kg. But it is not optimal weight, it is minimum weight as Rona already did say...

Now the kg go up fast with every cm, I think a big male at 70-72cm can get up to 40kg it depends on he’s body type...

Best regards / Mikael

[jefta]

I think that proportion height/weight mostly depends on index of hight (dog with perfect Xv55 weight less than dog Xv50) and chest (dog with perfect chest weight less than dog with deep and wild chest)

[jefta]

I made simple graph of CSV height:



I use period 5 years to make it transparent. But I don't now how to put period of time on graph, so 1995 means dogs bonitated in orgin countries in years 1990-1995, 2000 means 1995-2000 etc. As we can see CSV grows

[saschia]

Originally Posted by jefta

As we can see CSV grows

You didn't put the standard errors or deviations, so I might be wrong, but this trend doesn't seem too large for me. I wouldn't expect it to be significant...