Tail

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by freewild

hi just one question

about traduce about
the standard :

TAIL Set on high, hanging straight down. When dog is excited, generally raised up in sickle shape.

This is sickle - so that´s the correct way of carrying tail when the dog is excited.

[Mirkawolf]

I´ve found image of "excited" dog on dog show, carrying its tail in the classical "sickle" shape. Here it is:



The male dog on the photo is Brave Odin z Verne smecky, photographed
on Club Dog show in Litomerice, Czech Republic.

[furyos]

hi all .... y m not a juge( and yu too) BUT y say a litlle reserve when yu say tail necessary up like "nordik dog"(because some of yur pics show that sorry ) ....in fact yes it will be up (to show good caracther/exiting /etc ....no problem y m 100%agree(some pics from mirka are ok ) )but not like an husky or malamute(tex's pics ) ...... if yu don 't see difference beetween a dog who have a tail up like a dominant wolf but like a nordik:::::::: it' s a shame! .... personaly y think :if tail is to arround on her it 's a default ...good position it will be up when dog is on movment but not "turn arround "...do yu feel diffence or not ?.... don 't forget that our dogs had wolf origine and not nordik dog on their blood !!!!y NEVER SEE A WOLF LIKE AN HUSKY TAIL!!!!.... please don' t forget the difference .... and don 't say on this forum what it is YUR arrangments ....thank yu so mutch ...best regards ....furyos ...

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by furyos

hi all .... y m not a juge( and yu too) BUT y say a litlle reserve when yu say tail necessary up like "nordik dog"(because some of yur pics show that sorry ) ....in fact yes it will be up (to show good caracther/exiting /etc ....no problem y m 100%agree(some pics from mirka are ok ) )but not like an husky or malamute(tex's pics ) ...... if yu don 't see difference beetween a dog who have a tail up like a dominant wolf but like a nordik:::::::: it' s a shame!

Well, nordic, wich one?
Huskies and malamute have a completly different standard when we talk about tail.
Huskies tail must seems a fox tail, at movement must be ported up without touch the back, is preferenceable that it make a pretty curve in sickle format.
Husky tail must be quickly down at backline
Malamute's tail must be on the back at stay but cannot be curlied, must be on the line of the back.
Czechoslovakian wolfdog tail must have high insertion when the dog is axited the tail can be ported at sickle shape (as in the Mirka photo)

.... personaly y think :if tail is to arround on her it 's a default ...good position it will be up when dog is on movment but not "turn arround "...do yu feel diffence or not ?.... don 't forget that our dogs had wolf origine and not nordik dog on their blood !!!!y NEVER SEE A WOLF LIKE AN HUSKY TAIL!!!!.... please don' t forget the difference .... and don 't say on this forum what it is YUR arrangments ....thank yu so mutch ...best regards ....furyos ...

Because difficultly you will see a wolf or a high content wolfdog on the street or dogshows walking pretty like a sociabilized dog, with so good behaviour for walk showing the tail up relax at point to be in sickle full of movement.

Tail is one way for the dog and wolf express his felligs, one way for they talk, so, principally in wolves and wolfdogs the tail format can seems pretty different dog by dog at dogshows because it will depend directly of the behaviour, sociabilization and character of the dog.

One wolfdog.org you can find some photos of wolves, so, one of then show you a sickle tail, that will continue on sickle if this wolf have a pretty dominant character and have no concurrency, is only you look on the deep of the photo.


Yes, the tails in sickle only isn't up, and some tails in sickle you can find serching on the photos, but they will be difficultly up like a good behavioured wolfdog on dogshows.

[furyos]

hi nebulosa .... how are yu? very well y hope ?pics yu show me prove exactly what y want explain ...if dog is quiet :tail down.(like first wolf on pics)..but if dog is in action or in exiting :tail up like yur picture(second wolf on) ...but last picture from mirka and tex show exactly a bad position like a nordic dog ...sorry .... it 's too curl on the end and not straight enougth ...do yu see a pure german shepherd or a pure wolf like this???? sorry for me NEVER!!!!!!!!!!! for me this point will be important for the future selection /mariage and try to help to disapear that in future selection and mariage too ... genetic is not an easy science ...but we can try and work to help to disapear that ......HO SORRY !!! y forget ..yu are a friend from fabrice (french moderator) sorry if yu don' t like when y post reply about his dog ...but it s not he' is dog the problem(furcas have a lot of qualities) ..BUT it s the position about ALL TAILS like that ...yu feel and see the difference ? his pics posted is just an exemple to show the problem on image .... that 's all !!!..don t feel any agression or problem on mrs nebulosa ..it s my opinion and y think y can have one ...not ? best regards... furyos ...

[furyos]

hi....it s me again ...y look a lot of pictures and talk just now with some juges on phone(sorry y don 't give their name).... the problem for me (and them )it' s not tail up or down but the form of her when it s up ...curl on it 's a fault .... if it 's up and straight or little curl ok ...but if the curl is too mutch and go left or right side on the back ...this is a real big problem .... some nordik have this position and form of tail .... y hope yu understand this point of vue ...regards ..furyos

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by furyos

hi nebulosa .... how are yu? very well y hope ?pics yu show me prove exactly what y want explain ...if dog is quiet :tail down.(like first wolf on pics)..but if dog is in action or in exiting :tail up like yur picture(second wolf on)

No, the tail of the second wolf isn't up, if be up will be on sickle like on the photos of Mirka.

..but last picture from mirka and tex show exactly a bad position like a nordic dog ...sorry .... it 's too curl on the end and not straight enougth ...do yu see a pure german shepherd or a pure wolf like this????sorry for me NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!

No, the picture of Mirka show a dog with very good character.
Yes you can find pure wolfs with the tail on sickle like you can find GSD working line with tail on sickle when exicted, principally on working trials, is only you have more convivence with these two animals and you will see.

for me this point will be important for the future selection /mariage and try to help to disapear that in future selection and mariage too ... genetic is not an easy science ...but we can try and work to help to disapear that

Even if I appear with a CzW with curlied tail, this won't be a serious problems when the breed need better selection in more important parts, every experienced judge that judge a specialized dog show will give winner for a dog with excelent structure and behaviour even if this dog have an not wiched tail port, that isn't the case of sickle tail.
For me the behaviour of the dog is pretty important for selection, tail in up sickle at dogshows or public locals when walk, tail down right at normal position when relax ( maybe with the set up), for a wolfdog is a proof of good character.

......HO SORRY !!! y forget ..yu are a friend from fabrice (french moderator) sorry if yu don' t like when y post reply about his dog ...but it s not he' is dog the problem(furcas have a lot of qualities) ..

and so?
I really see no problems on Furcas tail, and I tough nobody see a problem in this, because this problem you talk not exist on he or Odin.

BUT it s the position about ALL TAILS like that ...yu feel and see the difference ? his pics posted is just an exemple to show the problem on image .... that 's all !!!..don t feel any agression or problem on mrs nebulosa ..it s my opinion and y think y can have one ...not ? best regards... furyos ...

All tails like that means normally a dog full of self thrust, that is pretty searched in the breed of any dog principally when we talk about dogshow, because dogs like that have something that we call "star" inside, they show as who think that're the best ones, that is the star, some experienced handlers say that the "star" isn't possible to be selected, that like with humans, some dogs born with the star, some not, is more a lucky question, you can have a very good behavoured dog without this, I still believe it's a lucky question.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by furyos

hi....it s me again ...y look a lot of pictures and talk just now with some juges on phone(sorry y don 't give their name).... the problem for me (and them )it' s not tail up or down but the form of her when it s up ...curl on it 's a fault .... if it 's up and straight or little curl ok ...but if the curl is too mutch and go left or right side on the back ...this is a real big problem .... some nordik have this position and form of tail .... y hope yu understand this point of vue ...regards ..furyos

Yes curl tail is a fault, but have someone see a CzW with curl tail?! if yes have photos?
an exemple of a silly curl tail.


more strong curly



I not imagine a CzW with a curly tail because the tail inserction and the bones it not reach for be curlied.

[furyos]

hi again nebulosa ...if yu think that it s YUR IDEA nebulosa if yu like yur idea no problem for me ......y respect it ...BUT NOT MINE ....for me yu are not open enougth in yur judgment and think just what yu want or feel on wolfdog ...like "anthropomorphism"....but selection it s not just lucky storie ... or little star on .... FOR ME : if y have one dog with this problem y NEVER try to have pupps with ..that 's all ... y don' t want see that in the future ...this is my idea ... respect it ...that s all ...best regards ...furyos

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by furyos

hi again nebulosa ...if yu think that it s YUR IDEA nebulosa if yu like yur idea no problem for me ......y respect it ...BUT NOT MINE ....for me yu are not open enougth in yur judgment and think just what yu want or feel on wolfdog ...like "anthropomorphism"....but selection it s not just lucky storie ... or little star on .... FOR ME : if y have one dog with this problem y NEVER try to have pupps with ..that 's all ... y don' t want see that in the future ...this is my idea ... respect it ...that s all ...best regards ...furyos

Isn't a question for ideas, we are talking about one dog breed with definited standard that MUST be respected.
Isn't something "I like dogs with tail on the belly because that I will select dogs like that because this is wolfish", if for you sickle tail is one problem, ok, but isn't for the standard that means that, simply like that, if you not like, ok, we respect it, but not try to put your taste as standard for the breed.
only that.

[furyos]

nebulosa !!! please !!!it s a joke or yu loose yur mind??? why not choose a chihuaha to illustrate this problem..... y think yu loose yur serious ..... when y speak about curl it's in the end on tail ...like a nordik ...if a lot of wolfdog have this "caracteristic "genetik ..yes we can imagine that a lot of mariage we can have yur last pictures ...god preserve us !!!!!!! this is for that it s necessary to STOP IT IMMEDIATLY ...mutation and genetik ...YU KNOW ? ;;;;in 10 or 20years if nobody note this ..YES IT WILL BE TOO LATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!good idea in fact yur last pictures ..this extrem idea show a real problem in future !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks nebulosa ...thanks ....regards ...f

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by furyos

...but last picture from mirka and tex show exactly a bad position like a nordic dog ...sorry .... it 's too curl on the end and not straight enougth ...

for me this point will be important for the future selection /mariage and try to help to disapear that in future selection and mariage too ... genetic is not an easy science ...but we can try and work to help to disapear that ....

Did I get you right?

[furyos]

nebulosa ...standart is not straight enougth ..y know and a lot of people know that (50 years old)..... we need a better ligth on this sort of problem ..like long hair coat /black mask ...ect ... please y 'm not stupid enougth to think that y m or became of origin of a new standart ...but y try to respect it ...and on standart the reference is wolf and not nordik dog ..OK? that's all ...

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by furyos

nebulosa !!! please !!!it s a joke or yu loose yur mind??? why not choose a chihuaha to illustrate this problem..... y think yu loose yur serious ..... when y speak about curl it's in the end on tail ...like a nordik ...if a lot of wolfdog have this "caracteristic "genetik ..yes we can imagine that a lot of mariage we can have yur last pictures ...god preserve us !!!!!!! this is for that it s necessary to STOP IT IMMEDIATLY ...mutation and genetik ...YU KNOW ? ;;;;in 10 or 20years if nobody note this ..YES IT WILL BE TOO LATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!good idea in fact yur last pictures ..this extrem idea show a real problem in future !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks nebulosa ...thanks ....regards ...f

God, you need quickly studie structure and dinamic of dogs or you won't be able to breed properlly.

[furyos]

if y say that nebulosa it 's because a tail with this problem can became on genetik present ..... that 's all and y don 't wait yu to breed dog ...sorry .... what studie yu have in genetik? y have a good friend in "maison alfort vetenary university."and y study with french teachers's SCC for my french certificate breeder .and my discussion about some problems we meet in some dogs(mask/long hair /tail curl) with them prove exactly that if nobody note that in a "cheptel "we can have realy this caracteristic on blood line ..... but y forget sorry yu are a big professor in yur country and french genetik professors are so stupid for yu ...to stop a genetik problem ? don t try a marriage with a risk inside .... that s all ......regards .... f

[furyos]

an other question ...do yu ever see in real furcas ? ..... y m not alone in france to note this problem ..... sorry ....

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by furyos

if y say that nebulosa it 's because a tail with this problem can became on genetik present ..... that 's all and y don 't wait yu to breed dog ...sorry .... what studie yu have in genetik? y have a good friend in "maison alfort vetenary university."and y study with french teachers's SCC for my french certificate breeder .and my discussion about some problems we meet in some dogs(mask/long hair /tail curl) with them prove exactly that if nobody note that in a "cheptel "we can have realy this caracteristic on blood line ..... but y forget sorry yu are a big professor in yur country and french genetik professors are so stupid for yu ...to stop a genetik problem ? don t try a marriage with a risk inside .... that s all ......regards .... f

I no need titles or names for proof my knowledge Furyous.
I think even with all these contacts lack for you experience, principally when we talk about CzW case, a breed with few bloodlines, you're talking in take out of reproduction a beauty dog with good character because his tail for you taste isn't good.

Originally Posted by furyos

an other question ...do yu ever see in real furcas ? ..... y m not alone in france to note this problem ..... sorry ....

If you be more experienced in judge dogs you will see that I no need touch Furcas for judge his tail when I have see some videos with he in dogshows, in the nature, playing and photos of he.
But is pretty common make this confusion when you have a dog wich show with a relax up sickle tail when you not know what points you need judge for judge the tail position and here, we talk even about the crupper and back limbs angulation.
We are talking about dog anatomy and really a dog with the structure of Furcas will never have a curly tail naturally, maybe if the tail was broken that isn't the case.

[freewild]

hi here is many photos about furcas and other dog

in fact it depend the caracter as one dog the level affirmed about dominance

in fact for me speak about furcas it's only to have explain about traduce
furyos( merlin ..franck .etc .... as you want .....) you ask as nebulosa if she have see furcas but you ............ you have see only one furcas you can't realy speak

now with photos you can speak

furcas have the tail realy on the parallele as the back not on the left not at the right and don't touch the back

for me the more important furcas don't agress the judge on showor are shy : the tail isn't realy important in fact it's only on information about the level as the dog in the hierarchy and furcas have one realy big caractere
BUT I wait other people as know the standard i didn't say " i have reason "

i just want to learn that's all
i don't speak esencialy about furcas's tail but about the standard

in fact we must speak about standard !
TAIL Set on high, hanging straight down. When dog is excited, generally raised up in sickle shape.

without agressivity just speak and explain why we said those we think about it

[furyos]

Attachment 404...............hey this is the real pb for for a bad position tail............but furcas is whithout tha areal real nice dog.........

[Nebulosa]

More two photos of sickle shape.
And as I told, when relax and up, can leave us to a mistake.