|
Breeding Information about breeding, selection, litters.... |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
13-09-2011, 07:02 | #321 | |
Moderator
|
Quote:
|
|
13-09-2011, 10:19 | #322 | |
Moderator
|
Quote:
I'm the first person who will be happy to know that she didn't made any crosses and the only problem are French American-Wolfdogs. But I'm also the last one who will believe in her words. And anything what was not made on the official. |
|
13-09-2011, 10:20 | #323 | |
Moderator
|
Quote:
|
|
13-09-2011, 15:09 | #324 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kecskemét,Külsőnyír 155/a
Posts: 44
|
reply
Quote:
To be honest: this saarloose gene is very strange that appears just in the 2nd and 3rd generaton, because I have never seen Crying Wolf dog which would have sarloose alike. So maybe the problem is coming from somewhere else. And to be honest . if you read back thios nice forum chatting, you musn't be wondering that Edit doesn't want to cooperate.For cooperation needs two part: you cancel her HD results, assist to the topics about her kennel and dogs yera by year. year by year, telling a lot of unreal thigs: like the kennelklub forbid to make pedigree her pups....?????????? I realy don't think that these forum would be for the breed. I'm sure many people are escape when see your bloody-mounth group! And please tell me how many saarloose where around Hungary at teh age of 2000's, when Galiba and Flash born???????? What is the problem Margo??? You can't sale you pups?? You attact many breeders and talking lies and lies and lies. What is the fact?? You haevn't got nothing againt Edit!!!! Nothing!!! And do you think a special judge would give a saarloose mix Re. CACIB in WDH Bratislava (Volos) or mate his male with a saarloose mix (Issar-Flash) ???? Or some slovakian and czeh breeders are stupid and can't see and buy saarloose mix??? something ele : could you tell me why would she make saarloose mixes with an old typed, homosigota red (it means couldn't bring other coloure) saarloose? It is totaly different type like csw.....and I'm still asking how could it happened that the saarloose alike dogs are coming just in the 2nd and 3rd generation...but not born in the kennel Crying Wolf. Also question : is Edit idiot to come to mateing , pay studfee and than let the saarloose to fuck her female?????? STOP INSULTING EDIT and OWNER OF HER DOGS!!!!! |
|
13-09-2011, 15:13 | #325 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
|
|
13-09-2011, 15:32 | #326 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kecskemét,Külsőnyír 155/a
Posts: 44
|
|
13-09-2011, 15:38 | #327 |
Senior Member
|
did anybody tell that galiba is a mix, or maybe flash??? i understood that it's still unknown from which dog it started. this photo shows possibility of appearing of a saarlos mix, no? all about this was written, maybe you didn't read...
|
13-09-2011, 15:54 | #328 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Kecskemét,Külsőnyír 155/a
Posts: 44
|
reply
Quote:
and : Edit bred lajkas, she has a malinois male (also red) and breed hungarian wirehair vizsla (also red) It means she made mixes with lajkas, malinois or vizslas????? Is she the only one breeder who has csw and saarloose?????? |
|
13-09-2011, 16:08 | #329 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 3121 Somoskőújfalu Somosi út 161.
Posts: 37
|
No need for writing and talking senselessly. I think the breeders have only one request: official DNA test. And everything will be clear.
|
13-09-2011, 17:29 | #330 | ||||||
Moderator
|
Quote:
Quote:
Believe me - I will be the most happy person if everything will be cleared and it will be showed that the dogs are purebreed. It was enough damage done to our breed last time. We do not need one more mess. Quote:
BUT 1) I see there WAS a Saarloos living by CW, 2) Edith LAID that the dog can not be father of the puppies because he is sterilized and 3) she didn't agree to the DNA tests even when Lorry was prepared to pay for them. Maybe for you it is normal behavior of a breeder. Not for me. Quote:
BUT remember - it is not about blaming the dogs! Maybe we do not agree with the style of breeding but it do not influence the breeding. If CW has nice and healthy dogs they will be used. The problem now is that there are serious doubts about their origin and pedigrees. Quote:
What with the white/lilac puppies - should we believe that Hanka painted them using photo shop? Do you want to say that Hanka is a liar? What is with the masks which appear by this "line". Are they caused because the owner love to paint their dogs? Are they liars too? Quote:
Look, we all own Wolfdogs and we all know how clever they are. And we have photos where we can see the kennels were the dogs live by CW. I'm sorry but even not very strong and not very cleaver Wolfdog will have no problem to brake out of them. The fences? I will not leave here dogs alone not even for 5 minutes. The photos convinced me that there can be something true in all the stories told last time he... Anyway I joined the group of breeder who apply the rule of "good CsW breeders": not to use any dogs coming from kennels which breed Saarloos and CsW at the same time... But let's go back to the topic and let's make it different - we have three main things: - red puppies born out of two Crying Wolf dogs - white/lilac puppies born out the CW female - Saarloos masks appeared by some CW offsprings For every part are responsible different genes. So to exlain it with "mutation" we must agree that we have here 3 different mutations. Hard to believe because it would be not mutation but a miracle. Do you have any other SCIENTIFIC explanation for it? I will even leave by side the other things like the "passive" Saarloos-alike character and the problems with wide set hanging ears which some people mentioned before. Let's try to exlain only the three things.... With no personal attacks - just pure facts.... PS. I really understand your rage as all dogs which you own are Crying Wolf dogs. But believe me - also for you it will be the best solution if the official DNA tests will be done and we will finally end the CW-story. Genes do not lie. If the parentage will be officially confirmed - GREAT! But till now it looks so - Edith do not want to cooperate with the owners of her puppies, the official clubs seem not to be interested. Private people can not do anything even if they want... So at the moment we have three possible casses: 1) some of the CW dogs are Saarloos mixes and the Saarloos mixes spread among our breed OR 2) the CW dogs are pure and their owners are charged unfounded OR 1+2) some CW dogs are mixes and the mixes spread among the breed and there are also pure CW dog whose owners are charged Every possibility is not OK - it is why we must finally SOLVE it (do not mix it with "HIDE it"). |
||||||
13-09-2011, 17:45 | #331 | |
Moderator
|
Because we all know know how the "private" DNA test are done. The blood is taken by the vet. ANY vet. It is enough that a friend of the breeder is a vet and it is childish easy to cheat the tests. It would be for example possible to take the blood of the Saarloos and sign it as the blood for example of Galiba. Or even send the blood of any three other dogs where it is sure that the puppy is osring of the tested parents.
I'm sorry but I heard already how the Dutch tests were cheated in similar case. And because of it I will not believe in any test which was not done on the official way - where the blood was not take by a official commission. Quote:
In such cases there is a possibility to make tests basing on halfsibilings or similar dogs. But as Daniela wrote - it is hard and problematic. Daniela works on the university. It is strange that is is hard for her but it was easy to do for Edith. I really do not understand which dogs were tested and HOW. |
|
13-09-2011, 17:48 | #332 | |
Canadian Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Montréal
Posts: 423
|
Quote:
Thank you Margo, But, I'm still wondering... Did DNA test have been done to prove that the father is not Crying wolf Merlin? Or did the breeder admit that the real father of this litter is an American Wolfdog? I'm lost and also feel very concerned by all this matter... There are around 300 dogs with Galiba blood and something like 200 with Flash blood... Are they all suspects? WOW... It’s really not a good thing for our breed... And it’s only based on suppositions... The CsV is a quite new breed I’m not so sure that it’s good thing to reduce is number of specimen only base on suppositions... I know, I'm not going to make me friends with this kind of words but it’s seens true for me. The best we can do for now, if we cannot have test from Galiba, Flash and others, is probably to oblige breeders to make DNA test on all there new litters to be accept as “Pure Breed CsV”... |
|
13-09-2011, 19:10 | #333 |
Member
|
Priska, but the saarloos inmixing can bring very unwanted characteristics into the breed - like the red color, the untypical mask, the untypical ears. All these things are faults that should remove the animal from breeding. OK, we know about the genetics of the red color, so we are able to take it away in few generations, if we really want, although it also meand great reduction of population. But what about the other traits which we have no idea about? How can we get rid of them if we allow spreading of mixes in our population? Not speakin about the character, saarloos are nice dogs, but not working breed, if some people claim that even now the CSW are losing their working abilities what will happen if we use mixes in the population? It will change the breed completely.
__________________
Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws |
13-09-2011, 19:18 | #334 |
Moderator
|
and it might give other perhaps not-great breeders some excuse to do some 'experiments', as long as they can keep it hidden for long enough. to me there isn't a statute of limitations on what will be registered as purebred - the dog either is, or isn't, and the only exception is when an official body approves otherwise.
|
13-09-2011, 19:39 | #335 | |
Canadian Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Montréal
Posts: 423
|
Quote:
|
|
13-09-2011, 21:13 | #336 |
ir Brukne
|
I am totally sure, that it is much better not to breed suspicious dogs TEMPORARY, than to deal with even bigger number of offsprings later, if the suspicions are really truth...
|
13-09-2011, 22:04 | #337 | |
Scandinavian Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,089
|
Quote:
Best regards / Mikael
__________________
_________________________________________________ *Hronec, Rasty, Zilja * Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html
|
|
13-09-2011, 23:46 | #338 | |
Canadian Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Montréal
Posts: 423
|
Quote:
|
|
13-09-2011, 23:56 | #339 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Northjutland
Posts: 2
|
CSW or not
I´m the lookey owner of a dog, she is everything I can ask for.
I haven´t been on Wolfdog.org in about a half year I think. And now this evening I have some time to look inhere. Now this visit have given me a bad feeling. My reason to buy a CSW is that I always will work with old original animals, there are few of in the hole world (genetic preserving) I think in my bad english Now I hope someone can tell me, do I now have a mixdog or a CSW. My dogs name is Fanthagiro Crying Wolf, what do I have to do, so I can get peace in my head again I do not like the way some of you talk to each other, It is not good for the breed, and do you not care for bad publisity you give of the forum. the best for CSW will be an official DNA-test of all dogs. I´m not a breeder, but in my seach for a good dog I have seen a lot of dogs with big, big ears, and not the "right" Wolfy look. For me Fantha look all right, but is it all right under the fur. Sorry my bad english, I hope you can understand it |
14-09-2011, 07:29 | #340 |
Distinguished Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kraków
Posts: 3,509
|
I've been reading the thread and have one very sad reflection:
Why can't the affected owners/breeders count on their Kennel Clubs' help and get support from these organizations in such case and similar ones? Why is FCI so impotent? Has the Slovakian Breed Club, the breed guarant, done anything to press the KC and FCI so far? The kynological institutions set the rules, but when it comes to their implementation and execution, don't care at all, (so why should the owners and breeders follow them?) Still they take money for membership, shows, registering matchings, litters, etc. etc. I wonder if sending many letters to their local KC AND Hungarian KC AND FCI by worried owners/breeders would help make them act... If one person posts, it may be disregarded, but if a few hundered affected owners/breeders wrote and requested action and official DNA checking? Could they keep ignoring them? Just an idea, maybe naive... |
|
|