Rutting Season

[fizban]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Interesting statement that some you don´t mind if a carpatian wolf would be brought into the breed to bring in fresh blood.

But it seems to me that some of you don´t know that it is not easy to mate a dog with a wolvin or a wolf with a female dog. Wolves get into heat only from december to march+- and the males too.

Fizban, I don´t know you I even don´t know how many dogs you have and if they are csw. But you are making politics although you are not in a csw club and know nothing about it all.

Male wolves go in heat too? That's quite and interesting concept - wolves would be the only mammals doing so. Do you have any references for this?

FIY I own one male CsW. However, even if someone doesn't own a CsW, I think it's their right to express their thoughts.. but hey, feel free to think the way you like it.

And I'm not making politics, I'm stating my impressions on this matter.

[hanninadina]

Male wolves have during the year small testicle. They are only able to mate the wolvin during the period when she is in her heat. And then their testicle will be full of Testosteron and so on and the males are able to mate. And these are the month from around december to march. Wolfpuppies will be born aorund february to may.

You can read it in every wolf book. My reference, the people I know and visit and see their wolves and talk to them and be with them who have wolves: Daniel Weigend www.lobopark.com in spain 25 wolves from 4 different kinds. Tanja Askani Wildpark Lüneburger Heide now 7 wolves from arctic and europaen, in germany the mother of wolves. Matthias Vogelsang - 6 wolves and 1 hybrid - in germany and friend and partner of Zoltan Horkai - 28 wolves in Hungary. Sky Brenton, Canada - 4 wolves - and some wolfdogs, Jos de Bruin 2 wolves. I don´t talk over Zoo wolves, I talk about people who live for their wolves with all what they are.

But you are kidding me that you didn´t know that male wolves get only in their "heat" for around 2 month, do you?

Greetings
Christian

[hanninadina]

Sorry, I forgot to put in the homepages of the above mentioned wolf owners:

www.wolfsliebe.de
www.horatius.hu
www.tanja-askani.de
www.wolfechovalley.com - here you have to press several times the button than the homepage will open.

Have a nice look. Some language you maybe don´t understand like german, but there are too nice pictures.

christian

[fizban]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

You can read it in every wolf book.

But you are kidding me that you didn´t know that male wolves get only in their "heat" for around 2 month, do you?

No absolutely, I'm not. Can you please name some book (with scientific research would be better)?

However, I doubt it's some real "heat". I'm guessing it is just a physiologic response to the female actual heat.. if you can name any scientific reference it'd be personally interesting for me to read them.

All I've found so far is references to the female heat, and that's it.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by fizban

However, I doubt it's some real "heat". I'm guessing it is just a physiologic response to the female actual heat.. if you can name any scientific reference it'd be personally interesting for me to read them.

All I've found so far is references to the female heat, and that's it.

You are right of course . The social interference during the mating season is necessary to produce fertile sperms, what definitly isn´t a heat. You can find it in the old books of Erik Zimen, no need to read several German homepages from wolfmothers.

Maybe we could return to the topic and Christian could open up a new one about heat in males?

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Ups, I meant interaction not interference

[hanninadina]

I was missing the right english word, that is why I wrote heat, was it so heavy to understand what I meant? I put in "heat", so I thought that one don´t have to think to deep. But it is my fault because I thought that mostly people know that male wolve are not able to mate the whole year long. I apolegize for my bad english.

christian

[hanninadina]

In which language you want to read? You have in italiy famous Professor Luigi Boitani who worked with Dr. Erik Zimen and made a book with L. David Mech. Do you know one these three?

In english there is for example from

Erik Zimen The wolf, a species in danger or

David Mech and Luigi Boitani, Wolves, Behavior, Ecology and Conservation.

And for the family Eichhorn I have two special ones:

Peter and the Wolf and
Little Red Riding Hood

Sorry, but they knew what I meant, but they like to get in trouble with me.

To open another thread? Why, this thread is about a wolfdog hybrid as fizban thinks... A grandson of Mutara or whatever. And it seems as if Fizban has to learn a lot. Doesn´t matter everyone starts like this.

Christian

[fizban]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

In which language you want to read? You have in italiy famous Professor Luigi Boitani who worked with Dr. Erik Zimen and made a book with L. David Mech. Do you know one these three?

I've spoken with David Mech via email a few times - he's really a nice person other than a great wolves expert

Take care

[hanninadina]

So, what are you asking for? It seems that you are a funny guy.

Christian

[fizban]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

So, what are you asking for? It seems that you are a funny guy.

Thank you

I was asking for scientific references of the thing you called "male wolves heat" since it was the first time I heard of it. I always love to learn new things about wolves, and that would have been a new thing. Cleared that it's not "heat", there's no need for the said references anymore. I've read a lot about wolves already -- Mech has also been so nice to answer some additional question I had.

Now, as Ina suggested.. can we quit this discussion and leave the thread for much more "in topic" replies?

[fenris]

The male wolfs hormonal period is called a "Rutting Season" and some refer to it as the WinterWolfSyndrome. The male is not able to breed except from that period (January - March). The Rutting Season comes regardless of interaction with females or not. It is a hormonal change like the "Heat" or estrus cycle in the female also is a hormonal change. Dogs doesnt have this and its one of the differences between wolves and dogs. Also the male wolves usually becomes more aggressive, possesive or show other mental changes . So it can be compared to a "Heat" - because it is really hot -. Everyone who has lived with wolves knows this. Some tame wolves can become completely changed and untouchable during this period. So breeding a male wolf to a female dog requires an estrus cycle in the female that matches the Rutting Season of the male.

[fenris]

Btw this is a known fact - and fizban better do his homework and read it in whichever book about wolves that he prefer. Or ask any wolf-owner or wolf-biologist that he like.

[hanninadina]

Thank you Jan. I was missing the words, but you understood what I meant. And Fizban, if you read so much over wolves, why the hell did you start this questioning? You took here some space what not was needed. And Jan is right, everyone who is really into wolves, knows these facts!

The main question was, if it is good or not to breed in wolves into csw. And therefore it is important to know that you cannot put simply as a dog mating male on female between wolf and dog. And this is the point what is going on in this thread opened by you! So if you want to talk about sence or not sence to breed in wolves you have to have all to discuss. But now I am really not sure if you only want to make politics.

And I am wondering why you know that it was Ina and not Michael who was writing in here? It seems to me that there is something not clear and it confirms me that you only want to make trouble. Do you have a puppy from Ina? And are you mailing or msning with her? What game are you playing?

Christian

[fizban]

Thanks fenris, as I said I always love to learn new things about wolves.. it may be a known thing to you, it wasn't for me

hanninadina.. dude, what are you ranting about?

[fizban]

If it helps quitting this absurd conversation.. My dog is "Moluk" (I named it Pampero), son of Danko Passo del Lupo x Cessy Aranèino poselství. He's the only puppy surviving his mother's poisoning. Both the parents are in Italy at some friend's place.

I've no idea who Michael is, and Ina signed herself "Ina" in a private message when she kindly replied my request for a contact with the cz or sk clubs.

I'm playing the "let's try keep Mutara out of CsW" game.

BTW, nowadays, male heat or not male heat, one could use artificial insemination if they wanted to cross a calm dog with a pure Canis Lupus Lupus without risking the dog to be killed by the wolf. It'd probably be the best way to bring in new wolf blood into the breed, or into any breed, or to create a new breed. I'm not an expert, it's just my 2 cents.

Have fun, and don't be too paranoid..

[fizban]

Err.. danko rifugio del lupo, not passo del lupo

[fizban]

hanninadina, would you please reply the posts in the thread they are? If someone moved the above posts here, I'm guessing they did it for a valid reason (not polluting another thread, for example).

However, as you said, not everyone informs the site admins about mates. Blame the people who did the mate and not me. If I had a male and a female and I was about to mate them, I'd register the littler here, but it's a personal decision.

Moluk has been inserted by someone with "breeder" access, and that someone didn't mention who the mother was, I have no idea why and I have no idea who added it to wolfdog.org.

Actually, according to his pedigree, the father is "Danko" and not "Danko Rifugio del Lupo", born in the Rifugio del Lupo kennel. Danko and Moluk's mother are owned by individuals, who did the mate. Rifugio del Lupo kennel is not an active kennel anymore.

That said, I hope you'll go back to your usual business, I'll stop feeding the troll.