CzW breeding in France (work vs. show)

[Kerstin]

Originally Posted by furyos

.........but it s not so easy ........

It is easy.


BUT: It takes a lot of time, money and effort of each single breeder, and owner to train their dogs, to visit bonitations and exams. But I think it is worth it.

I met so many people from different countries the last 5 years and many of them tried hard to exchange information and giving support to new owner. They love this breed and try to bring it forward by intelligent choices in mating and by finding the best people for their puppies.

I think this is a way to go. Exchanging information, giving support and most of all, to explain why.

Why they are not using a dog without x-rays for breeding...
Why they are not using a dog without bonitation for breeding...
Why are they not using a dog without training for breeding...

and furthermore

Are there any lines with sick dog?
Are there any dogs which are old and healthy?

You might want to add many more questions which are important for yourelf. These above are important to me.

Have a good day and best regards to all of you we have met during the last years

Kerstin

[wolfin]

in FCI system is written that CSW is working breed so what discusions can be working breed or not? Maybe france people want to change standart? i think that there are no problems to begin to do something with them, unless it is easier dont do anything and complane that everything is bad and make puppies like in factory. In lithuania we have only 8 dogs but we are working on establish the club, dogs will be and are breed with hips and elbows examinations and bonitacion and we work with dogs, because they are working breed. So, i think that if you want there are no fences, but if you talking nonsenses and trying to prove something, find out fences thats mean that you dont interesting in dogs welfare.

[Kerstin]

Originally Posted by wolfin

in FCI system is written that CSW is working breed so what discusions can be working breed or not?

Daiva you are right, but need to have a look of different conditions for breeding in the different countries.

If there is no working proof needed in France, but an exibitions in order to get the permission to breed than we cannot help it- what this breeder does, is legal.

It is the same in Germany, you do need a working proof

If this is good or bad, that´s a different story.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Kerstin

Daiva you are right, but need to have a look of different conditions for breeding in the different countries.

If there is no working proof needed in France, but an exibitions in order to get the permission to breed than we cannot help it- what this breeder does, is legal.

It is the same in Germany, you do need a working proof

If this is good or bad, that´s a different story.

Hi!
I think , the question is, in the Standard is write "Sheepdogs with Working Trial", if not deceif-me this working trial can be IPO too as can be Schutzhund and one endurance test, right?!
If the dog not have at least one of these tests cannot officialise the title of international champion, right?!
In France the only thing that is forbiden is the defence test, so, why not make the obedience and smell tests only?!
IPO not have defence, is only obedience, why not do it?!

[Kerstin]

Originally Posted by Kerstin

edit:
It is the same in Germany, you do NOT need a working proof

Sorry

[mijke]

Originally Posted by furyos

yes .........but it s not so easy ........frank

Sorry but YES it is more easy then you think!

When your country don't accept CsW as a working breed, you also can DO things with your Csw and you can convince other people (puppy buyers for example) that for the health of your/their dogs and the breed it is necessary to work with them

In my country (Holland) CsW are alowed to follow obedience courses, but to find other kind of training with a CsW it becomes difficult..., but it is possible when you are a bit ceative !

So I do a lot of things with my CsW with different traininggroups
And no, for me it is also not always possible to pass exams with my CsW But for me it is more important to work with a working breed like a CsW then get the official diploms

And that is why I am always telling my puppy's buyers: it does not matter what you do, but when you want a healthy and satisfied CsW's , DO something with them!

And for for example: because of my creative way of thinking and looking for activity's with my CsW, a week ago I was doing a rescue avalanche training in Austria in a group of a total different breed
And Chezka (Berta z vlei Chaloupky)and I did enjoy this new challenge (without diplomas)
Mijke

[furyos]

ok y m understand ...y work with them like bicycle .... and y try; when ossa is ok;kart to training huskies without snow .....but for pistage and other discipline we don t have near .........and of course y have family life too ....and my professional life.........but y can try ....thanks for yur information mijke...friendly frank

[Rona]

Originally Posted by furyos

ok y m understand ...y work with them like bicycle .... and y try; when ossa is ok;kart to training huskies without snow .....but for pistage and other discipline we don t have near .........and of course y have family life too ....and my professional life.........but y can try ....thanks for yur information mijke...friendly frank

Mijke is absolutely right. CSV love work, that's how they were 'made' - if one deprives them of the possibility to work, (whatever is understood under this term), they feel useless and suffer. I know an archeologist who takes his CVS with him whenever he works outdoors. My Tina taught herself how to act a 'geologist's dog' just by accompaning my husband in his reserach field trips... She also fetches slippers, newspapers, carries sticks, etc. She ran by the bike until she was nearly 13, etc. Even now we have to organise her "duties" , otherwise she gets bored & frustrated and nibbles the fur on her legs

But remember Frank, that no dog should practise intense running (endurance runs) before the joints (hips and elbows) are checked against HD and ED. If it turns out that she has C or more, running might ruin her health. But such dog can still "work" - can do tracing, obedience etc. Not necessarily to pass exams but just for fun, out of genuine need and to build trust between him and the owner.

And if the owner says he/she has no time for such activities? - well, what was the sense of buying such dog, in the first place? He should have bought a yorksire terrier, keep it in his pocket and have plenty of time

[wolfin]

dear Frank, BUT CSW is NOT huskies. ok this sport is very nice, but, wolfdog is specialization-tracking, not mushering.
if You will working with wolfdog-like sport, funy you can make mushing, but normal exam is Obedience, or trecking exams for wolfdogs.

i have questions-in France is....exams. can me say what exam have you in France?

in Lithuania we have IPO and BH, and first step with mondioring and KNVP, and mushing with husky and malamuts, of next year (with me organization) we have Obedience.

but this is NOT problem with me dogs make moore examins, not only in Lithuania, a have exams in Czech republic, Poland.

[Sky]

Hi,
if I can also say me mine I see this race from job to 100%, certain not all the subjects are suited to the job and it are here that the breeders have to work, trying to get dogs is morphologically excellent is that they succeed in working with his/her own masters.

My dog has gotten the brevet IPO1 to 2 years, trained by my wife which had never worked with any subject.

The problem according to me of the race is that people see her how a particular race frees, he thinks about having a wolf in the house or in garden, but this gentlemen it is a dog, it has particular dowries but a dog stays always.

In Italy there are subject that the flock selection have passed, civil protection IPO, but these results are gotten with sacrifice of the owner that has to approach himself in field to train himself 2 or 3 days to week but gentlemen in the other races is the same thing doesn't think that with a German shepherd he goes in field 2 times a month!!!!!!

Constancy!!!

I know that in some countries the job with the dog is prevented by laws, but this is a job race and to get the International Champion needs to have a job brevet and 2 CACIBs, as FCI says.

Regards Alessio Tabacco

[Sky]

Some Photo of SKY at working!!!





And some Photo at Show Dog!!!

Saluti Alessio Tabacco

[furyos]

hi wolfin ...here in france we can do agility or dogcross ...not more ....and we dont have any exam with csw ...it' not in accreditation of the race club ....sorry ...friendly frank.

[Kerstin]

Hi Frank,

our CSV visited obedience courses in France. They are not allowed to do protoction work- this is right, but they can do
all the rest. And if you work with your dog and know the rules for the exam you can do it in any other country, for example Czech Republic, Germany, Slowakia, Poland, etc. This is how we did it

If you own a dog, no matter what breed, you have to work with them somehow. If you do not have the time, money or energy it is better not to have a dog.


Regards,
Kerstin

[wolfin]

Frank, sorry, but You have in FR, the best training people from Obedience, you have agility, have French ring, have mondioring, and IPO.
i know what i say. i see dogs competicions list, and french dogs have first place in all system competicion.

If You not WILL moore working with wolfdog, make atleast only Obedience.

[Ness]

Hello, I am French, and in France the clt can practise all the sports canine, the agility, the canicross, tracking, obedience, research in décombre, rescue with water, the herds (even if some farmers are reticent ) ....... and more, has the choice nevertheless there…
Greetings!

[furyos]

yes activities without ring (in france)are ok but all people don t do work with their csw and y don t ask to them don t take this race because yu don t work with them!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ....y repeat for the last time people(french or all of the world)do what they want for their dogs ...show or work ....or both or just walk in nature ...the essential is csw are happy and in good house ...this is my point of yu and y think it s my last intervention here because yu re too much directiv for me and yu have always the same idea and don' t try to understand different point of yu ....byebye...yy can be happy because y don t think y come back ....friendly frank....

[furyos]

sorry y do a mistake on my last word /"yy" it s for: YOU and Y can be happy because ........ok byebye again

[wolfin]

Frank, good and intelegent dog MAS have good obedience.
if people not will working with IPO, profesional tracking, can make only Obedinece 1 exam.
and actually there will be enought "Obedience 0", that is better then nothing in training

[freewild]

hello

i'm agrre with you wolfin

CSW IS a working's dog he like if we give him the possibility of it

in fact in france more possibility obedience , tracking , agility rescue etc.....with notebook of work

for tex, the dog which I had before i had csau OB 0 we had a lot of working and test tracking.
actually with my new CSW furcas we working education ,at this moment and tracking and in futur obediance .






in fact since 1 or 2 years the mentality have change

before the CSW have considerate as a wolf

"why working with a wolf "???

actually there is 5 CSW so have notebook of work, as soon 6

since some time more and more people ( onwer of CSW ) think
"we could working with my dog "and the character is in line as this think.

if we realy want to working we take the time and all possilility to do it the CSW can and like working he ask at working

the only unauthorized , RCI, mondioring, because too less as wolfdog in france have good character for working in biten. it changing slowlybut it will changing in futur and the offical authority ,prohibits it because " it's a new breed and it's a wolf- dog that's why.

the CSW must "working" it's a little necesity
i will come on summer camps this year with furcas we will see perhaps

[Ori]

HI
Even living in France you can make your Wolfdog a Working Dog
As it was said you can train Obedience, Rescue and many other things. It will not give you an official working dog but gives you a wiser dog and a pleasure of working with a friend

There are two official ways of having working CSV
1. as Sky said - making IPO (not allowed in France)
2. making SVP exams (40 and more km running) - as I do with Amber
You can pass the exam in Slovacia, if you need a paper

Last weekend we got an official paper - my Amber is a Working Dog without defence


So try it brings you joy