My Worst Nightmare

[pixie]

Is there any news on whats happening yet

[Shadowlands]

Nothing I can report on, Pixie. Don't worry, as soon as anything happens - you'll all know (whatever that may be...)

[Tassle]

Originally Posted by Shadowlands

Nothing I can report on, Pixie. Don't worry, as soon as anything happens - you'll all know (whatever that may be...)

Still got all fingers crossed for you and Braveheart.

[Shadowlands]

Thank you xx

[Baz]

Have there been any developments to report in this case?

[Shoshone]

As some of you may know I have Braveheart { Moon }
He has now been with me for a couple of months this is how Moon has developed since he has been with me at Wolfzone kennels uk.
Moon came here as his owner had serious issues with him as you will see from an email she sent me which I will add to this post.
Had Moon not have come to me he was going to be put to sleep.
I paid the outstanding money owed for the dog to his owner in the uk.
I paid a nominal fee for Moon and he is my dog he is not stolen and the contract is in the favour of the previous owner in the uk.
I am not here to argue I am clearly stating that Moon is owned by Wolfzone kennels.
He was m worse nightmare for 24 hours and I wondered what I had took on when I was stuck in a kennel with a rabid dog baring all his teeth and roaring at me.
Myself and Kirsty have spent an incredible amount of time working with Moon, I am not going to bore you with an account of everything we have done, and I don’t have the time to sit at the pc for hours.
It just goes to show you how much work has been done with him, Moon has a two day film shoot for the BBC next week.

EMAIL FROM TESSA BROWN TO ANDRE AT WOLFZONE KENNELS UK

Tale of caution for all people who are considering importing a puppy in from Europe
Dont!
MY simple and clear advice
This is my experience

I met someone who told me about this woman who was supposedly a really good family breeder in Bulgaria. she was also getting a puppy form her...
She had one puppy left and i connected with her and i told her that i needed a low ranking male, she assured me he was that and we agreed for me to buy him. She agreed to drive him over here and it all went according to plan. I was slightly concerned when she told me one of her dogs used to sit and watch him eat in case he missed something and the other cause of concern was he really missed another pack member when taken away. Little things come back to you...later on.
When he came he was an angry little puppy. Very grumpy and biting everything he could. She hadnt fed him much on the way over so he had started to eat his own shit which they do when theyre hungry
After two days she had to come and stay with me as i really wasnt getting on with him. My bitch didnt like him, his biting was off the richter scale and she stayed for a bit, on walks he was growling at other puppies. She kept making excuses for him and saying this was normal. At this point i should have given him back, but i dont give up easily and i also didnt know at this point the first 17 weeks are the most CRUCIAL in this breed of dog in their socialisation and development ( The daily mail recently had an article about this and how the wolf gene is different to the dog in development) I was already fighting a losing battle unbeknown to me, one he was actually an Alpha male and two he hadnt got the sufficient work in place that is essential for their well being.
I remember the amount of walking i had to do despite hime being a puppy as he was very aggressive still and hanging off myself and my bitch. I managed to stop this behaviour eventually but still couldnt work out why he was still growling at other dogs and puppies.
He went on to puppy classes and he did very well. We did our bronze obediance and passed. At the end of the classes i was noticing a new behaviour starting, he was lungeing at other dogs.
We moved to a very rural place. I tried to find good classes for him but at this point his lungeing at other dogs was becoming hard work.We met a trainer and she disciplined him for something and he left her arm dripping blood from his claws. He wasnt having someone tell him anything. We went to her puppy classes and his behaviour was appalling.
I found another behaviourist who said i would have problems with him and he would become aggressive. I didnt believe her and carried on with my training and walking them in remote and unpopulated places in a local forest and in the semi dark, so i didnt meet others.
I sent him to a residential trainer where he smashed up the kennel on the first night causing 500 pounds worth of damage and he was very difficult to work with so he came back early.
We came across one dog running towards us off lead and the owner had no recall, he got the lead out of my hands and ran up to the dog and body slammed him to the ground. He did have good recall and then came back. I was upset at this point. Walking had become a chore and a worry not the peaceful and relaxing time in Nature necessary to my mental and physical well being.
We did go to a wolfdog show, where he was lungeing a lot and being very nippy to my friends, which i dont accept or like. It was a very stressful weekend and i was more than exhausted. I decided to look into castration, but after pressure from the breeder about how he should be left to develop until two i didnt do it.
I did think about rehoming him at this point. The breeder suggested i gave him to a man who i didnt know or think was suitable. Not knowing anything about him and he was a long way from me so i wouldnt have been able to check on his progress. There were other factors but thats not relevant for here. I decided no and i would continue with working with him and doing my best. I started working with mushing them and walking them on a line and in harnesses. They both got fitter and stronger and our walks became faster and more furious. I noticed a change in his play, he started grabbing her back a lot but really hanging on to it. I stopped play when it got like that, and i wasnt happy about that at all.
I had another behaviourist in. The concensus was he wasnt socialised enough ( this is going back to the first 17 weeks, i got him at 15) so where can i socialise a big male with an attitude and lungeing problem and with whose dog? You cannot do this with unknown animals that belong to the general public and i couldnt find anyone with a dog i could use as a stooge with the right temperament. He had a chemical castration so i could see the effects of no testosterone and the behaviour continued, he wasnt interested sexually in any other dog. He continued to get worse.
Then the fight happened. I was walking at this point in a friends private wood. They were in the back of my land rover when all hell broke loose in the back right behind my head. I opened the back door and managed to get them out and it was stopped. His nose was bleeding, he had gone for my bitch, she had defended herself ( she has NEVER been in any fight in her life. She is four and a half). the next day we were out for nearly 3 hours so i thought they would be quite tired the following day. Not so, i let them off lead and the agitation between them was obvious, at this point he was running alongside her and grabbing her back hard.I stopped play and went home. We met someone with a male dog on the way back, his attempts to get the male dog were so determined i had to put the line round a tree to hold him. At this point i gave up and made a phone call to Andre. I couldnt risk a fight in the middle of nowhere and my girl getting hurt. How would i have got her to safety and managed to contain him at the same time? The simple answer is it would have been impossible. His size was much bigger than her and he was determined with winning the fight for supremacy in the household. He was not the right dog to be in my family and environment
Luckily Andre helped me
It broke my heart. I was so torn and upset as i had tried my absolute best. Then the breeder turned against me, after sending Andre an email thanking her for rescuing him, then demanding him back. I am happy with my choice and decision. He is happy and is unstressed and much calmer. He was never going to fit in my house and it was a potential terrible accident waiting to happen. I did consult many people who had experience with my story and who are behaviourists. They told me i was being responsible and doing the right thing.
I stand by my decision with MY dog. I was not handing him over to a woman who missold me him the first place and couldnt do the right socialisation,bring in bite inhibition, stop food aggression and who wanted me to give him to people she choose despite not knowing them and her living abroad. I have regular contact with Andre and Moon, in fact i cant tell you how hard everyone works to ensure the high standards of cleanliness, the good quality food they are fed, the training and socialising that is done. It is the best possible place for him. he was not a dog that could have been rehomed to a family. I didnt mention the destruction either and that was with the huge amount of physical exercise and mental stimulation he had with me. He was not the right dog in the right house and that is what the breeder should be aware of. My heart was destined to be broken right at the beginning. Now i see and hear many stories which are libellous and slanderous about me and Andre. How sad is that. He is happy and healthy and in a good place where i can remain in contact and he doesnt slip down the slippery rehoming slope where dogs with issues and problems invariably go ending up in awful homes, chained up and much worse. I was responsible for his well being and i made the right informed decision. He is a different animal know as Andre knows more about the wolf dogs than anyone i have come across. She is the best possible person to bring out the best qualities in him. I respect her and i trust her. He is happy and thats all that mattters. Moral of the story do NOT buy from abroad. You cannot ensure what you are getting, the work put in, munay had terrible seperation anxiety as all the puppies were kept together and then he was pulled away for his journey. He smashed crates like egg boxes as a result. He had bad food aggression when he came, he had no manners at all, he bit badly..and the saddest of all being sold the wrong dog after specifically asking for low ranking and being given a top ranking male he was destined never to stay. You do not want to go through this. It is the most heartbreaking experience i have had to deal with in many years. It also could have been avoided. Do not buy from abroad.

[yukidomari]

Reading the email from the original lady who kept Braveheart it seems he behaved as a normal developing immature male Czechoslovakian Vlcak? It's not for fun when people say they are 'dominant and challenging' dogs to own; it's only a shame that the owner did not realize this and neither did the breeder realize this in the potential new owner. Everything that was written there I have experienced first hand in young and immature Vlcaks.

Coprophagia is common for many dogs and isn't indicative of anything. Vlcaks biting, and biting HARD, jumping, mouthing, destroying things and being dominant towards other dogs is not exactly rare and unheard of, unless a person decided not to do any research whatsoever. A Vlcak, especially a male, seeming to be impossibly wild and 'aggressive' at right around the 1 year mark is WELL within the norm and could even be said to be the normal course of development in their maturity. She asked for a submissive male, perhaps she got the most submissive one of the litter? But he is STILL a Vlcak. A Vlcak (or any dog for that matter) behaving aggressively when suddenly rehomed especially as an adult is not exactly surprising either.

I don't know what the contract is between the breeder and the owner but if the breeders' contract stated rights of first refusal, which is what I gather (and common here to well-written contracts), then he should have first been (and the owner is obliged to) offered to the breeder to buy back. And in any case the contract probably laid out, or should have laid out, stipulations in regards to rehoming and breeding, including surrender, cross breeding, breeding without registration, and so on. If so, that's what I suspect the legal action is for. If not, then I think the breeder can take this as a lesson well learned.

Dogs are not predictable machines, they are living, growing, and learning creatures. Even the best breeder can't predict with absolute certainty how a dog will turn out. All a breeder can do is offer to take the dog back and take responsibility for him, which is what appears to be the case.

A buyer should take responsibility for their decisions; when somebody buys a breed widely said to be dominant and challenging and wants otherwise, that is a problem in itself, especially if the person wants a young puppy, all of which grow and have huge potential for change..

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Shoshone

. Do not buy from abroad.

Seems to me a piece of advertising of your own kennel! Show me ONE breeder in the UK who is breeding ethically, and only pure CSVs!
I don't breed myself, but I'm sick of reading about all those 1/2, 1/4, 1/3 and the half () CSVs bred by the British pup producers and then put on sale on auctions. I would never advise anybody to buy a puppy in the UK BEFORE the breed is recognized and honest, and decent people start ethical breeding there.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Shoshone

He was m worse nightmare for 24 hours and I wondered what I had took on when I was stuck in a kennel with a rabid dog baring all his teeth and roaring at me.

24-hours as a nightmare Vlcak seems a pretty good boy ..

I think you can find many happy owners of normal Vlcaks who will say their little nightmare was for about two years or so ...

[pixie]

Originally Posted by Shoshone

As some of you may know I have Braveheart { Moon }
He has now been with me for a couple of months this is how Moon has developed since he has been with me at Wolfzone kennels uk.
Moon came here as his owner had serious issues with him as you will see from an email she sent me which I will add to this post.
Had Moon not have come to me he was going to be put to sleep.
I paid the outstanding money owed for the dog to his owner in the uk.
I paid a nominal fee for Moon and he is my dog he is not stolen and the contract is in the favour of the previous owner in the uk.
I am not here to argue I am clearly stating that Moon is owned by Wolfzone kennels.
He was m worse nightmare for 24 hours and I wondered what I had took on when I was stuck in a kennel with a rabid dog baring all his teeth and roaring at me.
Myself and Kirsty have spent an incredible amount of time working with Moon, I am not going to bore you with an account of everything we have done, and I don’t have the time to sit at the pc for hours.
It just goes to show you how much work has been done with him, Moon has a two day film shoot for the BBC next week.

EMAIL FROM TESSA BROWN TO ANDRE AT WOLFZONE KENNELS UK

Tale of caution for all people who are considering importing a puppy in from Europe
Dont!
MY simple and clear advice
This is my experience

I met someone who told me about this woman who was supposedly a really good family breeder in Bulgaria. she was also getting a puppy form her...
She had one puppy left and i connected with her and i told her that i needed a low ranking male, she assured me he was that and we agreed for me to buy him. She agreed to drive him over here and it all went according to plan. I was slightly concerned when she told me one of her dogs used to sit and watch him eat in case he missed something and the other cause of concern was he really missed another pack member when taken away. Little things come back to you...later on.
When he came he was an angry little puppy. Very grumpy and biting everything he could. She hadnt fed him much on the way over so he had started to eat his own shit which they do when theyre hungry
After two days she had to come and stay with me as i really wasnt getting on with him. My bitch didnt like him, his biting was off the richter scale and she stayed for a bit, on walks he was growling at other puppies. She kept making excuses for him and saying this was normal. At this point i should have given him back, but i dont give up easily and i also didnt know at this point the first 17 weeks are the most CRUCIAL in this breed of dog in their socialisation and development ( The daily mail recently had an article about this and how the wolf gene is different to the dog in development) I was already fighting a losing battle unbeknown to me, one he was actually an Alpha male and two he hadnt got the sufficient work in place that is essential for their well being.
I remember the amount of walking i had to do despite hime being a puppy as he was very aggressive still and hanging off myself and my bitch. I managed to stop this behaviour eventually but still couldnt work out why he was still growling at other dogs and puppies.
He went on to puppy classes and he did very well. We did our bronze obediance and passed. At the end of the classes i was noticing a new behaviour starting, he was lungeing at other dogs.
We moved to a very rural place. I tried to find good classes for him but at this point his lungeing at other dogs was becoming hard work.We met a trainer and she disciplined him for something and he left her arm dripping blood from his claws. He wasnt having someone tell him anything. We went to her puppy classes and his behaviour was appalling.
I found another behaviourist who said i would have problems with him and he would become aggressive. I didnt believe her and carried on with my training and walking them in remote and unpopulated places in a local forest and in the semi dark, so i didnt meet others.
I sent him to a residential trainer where he smashed up the kennel on the first night causing 500 pounds worth of damage and he was very difficult to work with so he came back early.
We came across one dog running towards us off lead and the owner had no recall, he got the lead out of my hands and ran up to the dog and body slammed him to the ground. He did have good recall and then came back. I was upset at this point. Walking had become a chore and a worry not the peaceful and relaxing time in Nature necessary to my mental and physical well being.
We did go to a wolfdog show, where he was lungeing a lot and being very nippy to my friends, which i dont accept or like. It was a very stressful weekend and i was more than exhausted. I decided to look into castration, but after pressure from the breeder about how he should be left to develop until two i didnt do it.
I did think about rehoming him at this point. The breeder suggested i gave him to a man who i didnt know or think was suitable. Not knowing anything about him and he was a long way from me so i wouldnt have been able to check on his progress. There were other factors but thats not relevant for here. I decided no and i would continue with working with him and doing my best. I started working with mushing them and walking them on a line and in harnesses. They both got fitter and stronger and our walks became faster and more furious. I noticed a change in his play, he started grabbing her back a lot but really hanging on to it. I stopped play when it got like that, and i wasnt happy about that at all.
I had another behaviourist in. The concensus was he wasnt socialised enough ( this is going back to the first 17 weeks, i got him at 15) so where can i socialise a big male with an attitude and lungeing problem and with whose dog? You cannot do this with unknown animals that belong to the general public and i couldnt find anyone with a dog i could use as a stooge with the right temperament. He had a chemical castration so i could see the effects of no testosterone and the behaviour continued, he wasnt interested sexually in any other dog. He continued to get worse.
Then the fight happened. I was walking at this point in a friends private wood. They were in the back of my land rover when all hell broke loose in the back right behind my head. I opened the back door and managed to get them out and it was stopped. His nose was bleeding, he had gone for my bitch, she had defended herself ( she has NEVER been in any fight in her life. She is four and a half). the next day we were out for nearly 3 hours so i thought they would be quite tired the following day. Not so, i let them off lead and the agitation between them was obvious, at this point he was running alongside her and grabbing her back hard.I stopped play and went home. We met someone with a male dog on the way back, his attempts to get the male dog were so determined i had to put the line round a tree to hold him. At this point i gave up and made a phone call to Andre. I couldnt risk a fight in the middle of nowhere and my girl getting hurt. How would i have got her to safety and managed to contain him at the same time? The simple answer is it would have been impossible. His size was much bigger than her and he was determined with winning the fight for supremacy in the household. He was not the right dog to be in my family and environment
Luckily Andre helped me
It broke my heart. I was so torn and upset as i had tried my absolute best. Then the breeder turned against me, after sending Andre an email thanking her for rescuing him, then demanding him back. I am happy with my choice and decision. He is happy and is unstressed and much calmer. He was never going to fit in my house and it was a potential terrible accident waiting to happen. I did consult many people who had experience with my story and who are behaviourists. They told me i was being responsible and doing the right thing.
I stand by my decision with MY dog. I was not handing him over to a woman who missold me him the first place and couldnt do the right socialisation,bring in bite inhibition, stop food aggression and who wanted me to give him to people she choose despite not knowing them and her living abroad. I have regular contact with Andre and Moon, in fact i cant tell you how hard everyone works to ensure the high standards of cleanliness, the good quality food they are fed, the training and socialising that is done. It is the best possible place for him. he was not a dog that could have been rehomed to a family. I didnt mention the destruction either and that was with the huge amount of physical exercise and mental stimulation he had with me. He was not the right dog in the right house and that is what the breeder should be aware of. My heart was destined to be broken right at the beginning. Now i see and hear many stories which are libellous and slanderous about me and Andre. How sad is that. He is happy and healthy and in a good place where i can remain in contact and he doesnt slip down the slippery rehoming slope where dogs with issues and problems invariably go ending up in awful homes, chained up and much worse. I was responsible for his well being and i made the right informed decision. He is a different animal know as Andre knows more about the wolf dogs than anyone i have come across. She is the best possible person to bring out the best qualities in him. I respect her and i trust her. He is happy and thats all that mattters. Moral of the story do NOT buy from abroad. You cannot ensure what you are getting, the work put in, munay had terrible seperation anxiety as all the puppies were kept together and then he was pulled away for his journey. He smashed crates like egg boxes as a result. He had bad food aggression when he came, he had no manners at all, he bit badly..and the saddest of all being sold the wrong dog after specifically asking for low ranking and being given a top ranking male he was destined never to stay. You do not want to go through this. It is the most heartbreaking experience i have had to deal with in many years. It also could have been avoided. Do not buy from abroad.

Hi my internet has been down for a few weeks but now i have caught up on this thread, I am the man mentioned on here as someone she didnt know or think was suitable, when Christine first asked me to help, I said i would including taking him on myself if that was nessesary, i can assure you all, that Christine was both concerned about Tessa, her other dog (which i believe is a Saarloos cross but not sure) and Braveheart i contacted Tessa through facebook to find out what the problem was and see how i could help, she was rude and not interested and told me not to contact her again, so i could do no more, i currently have 2 CsV's a female and a male and no i have no intention to breed with either (they are brother and sister), I have also rehomed one to a family near me as the breeder Mr Winder would not even answer the owners telephone calls, until i contacted him and he wanted him back until he heard he had been neutered and his interest waned to the point he would not answer me, so yes Christine and I had planned for me to take him if Tessa could'nt cope, and to Andre i would say if it is not a stud dog from good European stock you want him for, I will come and take him to the vets and have him castrated at my cost. This rant by both Tessa and Andre is just typical of people buying the dogs for financial reasons, if its not financial give him back to the breeder like anyone responsible would do
hope this clears things up but again Christine was trying to help Tessa but Andre turned her head with £££££ signs the pictures of braveheart at the "wolfdog" show do not show him being aggresive around other dogs
thanks