Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs-Australia

[Ligerwolve2]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

We know that from betrayed puppybuyers and from advertisements the breeder made herself:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...+spirit&page=2
http://www.dhd24.com/archiv/index.ph...t=raven+spirit

I am sorry it is on German but I don´t have the time to translate and I am not responsible for the dogs anyway.
She sold a lot of people dogs as purebreds that weren´t and she seems to have made a crossing between daughter and father as well.
Even IF the male is from the Dünnerntal ancestor , Dünnerntal belongs to Roland Homberger who has been thrown out of the German Kennelclub long time ago, shows up every now and then and dissapears again owing money and abandoning dogs. The Dünnerntal ancestor was born by a mother that has been bred in the age of 10 month. This is one of the very few things that are likely to be true. Shortly after Homberger dissapeared again leaving a very young women with a very small child and a lot of not very well fed dogs of doubtfull but not purebred origin.

http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthr...land+homberger

IF this puppy found it´s way to Raven Spirit and IF it is the mother of the dog, they might be purebred but from parents without healthtests. And as the only other dog with prooven origin anybody knows of Raven Spirit owned, is one male of Spirit of the Wolf (called by her Fenris) that was used for every litter we know also that the mothers are mixed and as written before we know this from puppybuyers that have been there.

Fact is, that neither Raven Spirit nor vom Dünnernthal can be trusted with anything nor did they undergo any controles by officials, but by themself have advertised mixes with TWHs several times.

So no responsible breeder would use them as a founding stock for a breed newly introduced in a country.

Ina

Sorry I forgot to thank you for posting that. I will be having a good read when I get the chance.

Wolves you can harp on all you like Im not explaining my dog anymore to you.

My credability is fine Im a registered breeder and worked in the animal industry a long time. Im afraid that although your opinion is not good I do just fine thanks

I asked you if your dogs parents had any health tests done. You didnt answer but I do know that your pups are too young at this time to have proper gradings done.

Also Id really like it if you stopped putting words in my mouth. I said a while ago that the "parents" were in question. I never said that either dog was a cross only that there was speculation. Which at the time there was talk on here of the "parents" not being pure. You like to leave out the bit where I said that I just had warning bells going off for me and that people should do their own digging. I also went back later and said it was the sire and grandsire. So you have no case there Im afraid but good luck

You can rant all you like but you cant force me to discuss anything. Perhaps if you were polite Id be inclined. What a breeder thinks is between them and me. Id happily link them to the variety of photos if they wanted. I would show them papers if they needed. However I would assume they would treat me like any novice since I have not owned a CzW. Anyway thats a long way off and Im not concerned. Any breeders who do come here will probably get a chance to meet me anyway if they exhibit their dogs.

Personally Id like to see the quarantine reduced to 10 days instead of 30 first. Crossing all fingers that happens as it will certainly be better for any dogs arriving here.

I'm not putting words in your mouth and you're lying again. You posted that both dogs were in doubt this year, not once has anyone said this year that the mother was in doubt. Stop trying to cover up the fact you lied.

I don't think the Czw wolfdog community will be interested in your "Czechoslovakian Shepherd" given she never existed. I've already told you that Czechoslovakian Shepherd is a misleading name for German Shepherds from former Czechoslovakia and I'm sure they'll agree with me.

There is no record of czw foundation stock being used to breed back to German Shepherds, and it would be a stupid idea. The main foundation stock would of been in breeding stations at the time!

I know from first hand knowledge what you're saying can't be true. But your continuous attempts to ignore my questions, solidifies my idea that you're lieing. As I said why don't you ask some of the Czech or Slovak breeders what they think of your "Czechoslovakian Shepherd" with "foundation czw" stock in her who looks like a German shepherd, but is called a wolfdog?

Also you said the breeder was FCI registered, what were the dogs registered as when there is no such breed as a Czechoslovakian Shepherd?


Yeah, you're credibility is nothing but a joke. I'd just like to say that everyone here despite what they've said, has managed to present themselves in a mature and adult manner, you on the other hand I have no idea wether I'm arguing with an adult or a 12 year old. If you want to be taken seriously don't start using childish Internet abbreviations such as "LMAO" and "ROFL".

Originally Posted by Ligerwolve2

Sorry I forgot to thank you for posting that. I will be having a good read when I get the chance.

I'm glad you're going to have a good read. Seriously why are you so interested in my dogs and their lines? There are plenty of other dogs in Australia to be interested in. I can understand the other people in the thread, but you're not even affiliated with the breed.

[Ligerwolve2]

Ive been interested in the breed for over 10 yrs. I was almost at the point of importing before a personal matter stopped me.

I have been passionate about them for a very long time and want them introduced properly. Id like the chance to own and show one but if people dont take care they will just be banned.

Im interested in this litter because people who know my wolfdog thought maybe I might know about these dogs. Some people even know I love the CzW and wanted my take on it. I gathered that one dog was at least unregistered but wanted to see what the breeder would do. I think registered is better but the MOST important thing to me is how the breeder operates. There are ANKC unregistered dogs for example registered with the working dog register. They are just as ethical as the ANKC breeders. They do everything the same almost. So I wouldnt tell people to steer clear of them say if they wanted a top working kelpie. That would actually be the better place to go. So what Im getting at as I reserve judgement. They are open and clear though about what they are. When the breeder wouldnt answer my questions I said as much and directed people to read the threads here and make up there own mind but that I wouldnt. Keep in mind Id prefer a registered animal anyway. Ive got small children (so Im not ready to take on another dog anyway right now) and would want to really be sure of lines. Any kind of suspect is too much for me.

Its my opinion that this isnt the kind of breeder Id recommend (given you wont tell me about your experience) but if they never have another litter it doesnt really matter does it.

Ive worked in the animal industry a long time. You may not want to hear my opinion but I know how quickly these things can snow ball. Im not trying to rain on your parade so to speak. If you were talking about how cute they are, funny things they do Id be in there agreeing. If you asked me a question Id answer it to help you. I think we need more of that in the dog world! However I think you miss the point some of us have tried to make and Im not sure its worth explaining again. A closed mind is a closed mind.


I dont mind answering any reasonable questions but Im growing tired of personal attacks. Im not a liar, thats just your opinion. Like Ive said Im not going to discuss my dog anymore. You are not interested in my dog at all. You dont have any first hand knowledge of my dog or her breed. How can you when you have never met one or met my dog.

"Yeah, you're credibility is nothing but a joke. I'd just like to say that everyone here despite what they've said, has managed to present themselves in a mature and adult manner, you on the other hand I have no idea wether I'm arguing with an adult or a 12 year old. If you want to be taken seriously don't start using childish Internet abbreviations such as "LMAO" and "ROFL". " - Seriously? Honestly I dont know what your point is. There are a number of members here that do exactly the same. You never bother to point that out. Oh thats right I asked if you knew of any health tests. Ahhhh I see totally means you can be insulting.

Anyway. Unless you are interested in actually offering some info - even just telling us what good experiences you have had with the breeder or the breed, Im going to stop replying. I dont see the point of it.

I still wish you all the best with your two.

I've mentioned many times we were satisfied with the breeder. My family were registered purebred breeders for decades, vaccinated, registered and health checked and we did our best to ensure they went to the best possible homes. Also had best in show winners. We've also been involved in animal welfare, in conjunction with the local vet and newspaper, we had a program where we would re home lost and abandoned dogs. So don't try and make out that we're not experienced.

The breeder stopped talking to you, therefore it's not my place to discuss it with you. Perhaps if you were on better terms, you could try asking the breeder again? I doubt it would get anywhere given the unjust remarks you said about them since.

"Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:14 PM
I wouldnt trust this breeder at all. There is a fair amount of doubt with both dogs." - Now not once this year did anyone say the mother was in doubt, as you can see, I showed you posted it at sep,2012. The pedigree, showing the female is spirit of the wolf has been up for years now. So ok, you may not of directly lied. But you made that statement because of what people falsely said years ago before the pedigree was known. I wouldn't trust anyone who doesn't bother to check their facts before they attempt to defame someone.

You aren't in a position to judge the health and temperament of my dogs, you know nothing about them and never will. But given the way you talked about your "wolfdog" eating your TV, there seems to be something strange and dangerous going on there. I was expecting my dogs to be hard, but they're intelligent and learn extremely quickly. Not hard dogs to own at all...maybe that's just my dogs in particular. They're not as devoted to working for you as a GSD, they get bored and will do there own thing after a while, but teaching them is easy.


"Im not trying to rain on your parade so to speak" Ha, what are you even on about?



"You dont have any first hand knowledge of my dog or her breed. How can you when you have never met one or met my dog. " I don't claim to have first hand knowledge of your dog, like you do with mine. But I know that Czechoslovakian Shepherds are German Shepherds. As for her breed, I know a lot about German Shepherds, so yes I do know about the breed.

It's funny how you think this breeder was registered, when they hadn't even bothered to get the breed recognised here in Australia. Probably because its impossible to register a non existent breed.


Like I said ask anyone here what they think of your dog, and they'll most likely agree with me.

[Ligerwolve2]

Here are some more quotes. My last reply on DOL - Incase anyone is interested its been confirmed (as you can read for yourselves) that the sire and grandsire are non registered which given there has been crosses out of that kennel before is a bit suspicious.

I will leave you all to make up your own minds

And here is one from you - The sire was not registered, neither was one of his parents but after that, all are registered. If you'd looked you would of seen VDH numbers. Seriously how do you think a dog is a mix, when both parents are registered?

- When I say both parents, im not refering to my dogs.

So you can use the term parents in a general manner but you use it as some kind of evidence else where?

[Ligerwolve2]

Here is another from you - I would hope that in the case of the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, that owners would be required to have some kind of permit. Many people buy them for their looks, and although they have done research, they don't realise how much of a challenge the dog is untill they buy one.

I recently got a Wildlife Permit, as I intend to own a dingo in the future, it's a free permit. Just I had to build a large enclosure and demonstrate that I know a lot about dingoes in order to recieve it.

I don't think they will put a permit when it comes to owning dogs like the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog in Australia, as they're a domestic dog unlike the dingo. But it really would help, as they're not like a normal dog.

But the first step is actually getting the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog recognised here....

Thats an interesting read dont you think. So your dogs are so easy but here you talk about how people should have to have a permit?

The last line made me laugh. Or should I say LOL.

[Ligerwolve2]

Here is another quote by you which says you dont understand breeding very well - These pups have a pedigree, which shows they are pure.

Its not like a breeder has it on their computer and edits it themself or anything...

[Angelika]

bla bla bla bla bla

Very fine, but I´m really sorry, Ligerwolve2 and Wolves.

I think, everyone else here is really bored.

Cheers and bye
Angelika

[Ligerwolve2]

Originally Posted by Angelika

bla bla bla bla bla

Very fine, but I´m really sorry, Ligerwolve2 and Wolves.

I think, everyone else here is really bored.

Cheers and bye
Angelika

Yeah you are right Angelika - and so am I! I dont think there will ever be any clear answers coming. So Im going to go sit on my hands

[QLDphil]

Hi there, This is my first time here. I am looking to get two Czech Wolfdogs here in Australia. Can anyone help?