Demoniak de la Louve Blanche

[hanninadina]

Jos wrote:

"They used an TWH Wolf-mix which i had and was supposed to get rehomed but i gave him to some one shortly and they let it dissapear and ended up with that breeder."

The topic was asked in american wolfdog forum, where Demoniak comes from. I wrote my personal opinion that he is from Skog, a Saarloos - but of course how it is in wolfdog world, I am not sure. And Jos answered:

"They used an TWH Wolf-mix..."

The Topic was, again, I repeat myself, because some people seem to lose control of what we are writing here, who is the father of Demoniak! And when a guy like Jos wrote:

"They used an TWH Wolf-mix .."

then it is obvious that he meant, they used this wolf mix for breeding as the father of Demoniak!

Or what wanted you express Jos? I know that you have difficulties with the german language, but your english is a bit better.

Now, where you notice that you made a fault, you start again with your lies..., typical for you.

Sophie, you know my opinion, people who want to breed wolfdogs can do that, but please do not cheat with the papers! Of course Demoniak is the best csw in the world! And now, where Jos brought light in the case, everybody could be happy, that there is a marvellous in character and fantastic outlooking F 2 pure csw stud male without any american wolfdog heritage! This is real fresh blood.

Best would be to legalize him for official breeding.

[Joswolf]

Berge Wrote (Now, where you notice that you made a fault, you start again with your lies..., ) and then wants to legalize an F2 how is is this possible when i lie Berge? If you can not read shut up. I do not know who is the father of Demoniac i was never there. I only know Berges friends took this hybride to France and Demoniak is wolfish. I do not know anything more. And i also do not care.
Jos

[LadyJessy]

This discussion is more absurd ...
At first they said Diamond's father was a Saarloos....
Now some say that the father is Skog (Saarloos mix with..?!)
Others say that the father is a wolf..
Others say that the father is a TWH Wolf mix...

How many fathers has Diamond??

If you know something and you have the evidence then proceed with the facts!
But if not, it is pointless to talk about.. do not you think?

[Joswolf]

Now who is Diamond? It is rather confusing. Who is telling al these rumors?
Was it the same one C B?
Jos

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by LadyJessy

This discussion is more absurd ...
At first they said Diamond's father was a Saarloos....
Now some say that the father is Skog (Saarloos mix with..?!)

I think there is a huge misinterpretation of the word "Saarloos" in the case of CsW. I know only one case where real Saarloos were used to be crossed with Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. It was already several years ago - I remember the Czech CsW Club planned to make international protest against the "de Louba Tar" breeder due to untypical look of some dogs coming from that kennel. (The breeder used Czech "lines" but its offspring didn't resemble Czech Wolfdogs but Saarloos bred by this kennel). They gave up after they were warned that they can not do anything against the breeder who is also FCI judge and the president of the Dutch CsW Club. Simply a VIP in her country.

But it seems that Czech Club was right: some years later (2008?) the Dutch kennel club proved the DNA and discovered that in fact the breeder really crossed CsW and Saarloos. It is a pitty that as far I know they proved only Saarloos Wolfhonds and the pedigrees of the CsWs coming from that kennel were never officially verified. Because some of that dogs look VERY suspicious. And some of them resemble 100% Saarloos Wolfhonds.
Maybe the "purity" DNA test can give us the answer for it.


All other description of dogs which are "Saarloos" are not 100% correct. Mutaras are similar to Saarloos because of the same origin. Both are crosses of the American/Canadian Wolves and GSD. The same apply to the mixes bred in France - most of them seems to be crosses of American Wolfdogs or similar crosses - because of it they LOOK like Saarloos Wolfhonds (in the fact they are kind of CsW-Saarloos crosses).
Anyway neither Mutaras and their offsprings nor the mixes bred in France are Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. All of them should loose the pedigrees.

[koomak]

You want what? You want me sterilized Doz? no, she makes beautiful babies too. . . I do not like that look CLTS German Shepherds. . My dogs have a pedegree. I trust the breeders, Frank and Suski. . . Give me serious evidence and maybe I make arrangements. .

[koomak]

margo margo margo . . sarloos, us, mix, Wolf. . . I'm so tired, so tired :-( :-( :-( :-(

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by koomak

margo margo margo . . sarloos, us, mix, Wolf. . . I'm so tired, so tired :-( :-( :-( :-(

Margo? Margo is not important here. You should pay more attention to the words of Christian who is breeding American Wolfdogs and knows then very well. Or to Jos who has many experiences with wolf crosses and he can easily recognize them. His words:

Originally Posted by Joswolf

Frank Capiez who had my wolfdogmix did speak fine English when i spoke with him. Who are you fooling around and asking if i had Demoniak, sorry i never said that i never seen that dog. And i never seen the so called parents but have you no eyes? Can you not tell an TWH from a mix. Or did a wild wolf climb the fence over night? The breeders who have TWH you think they are all stupid?

Don't forget Michael:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Demoniak and Doz are mixes with fake pedigrees. And all their offspring too (hello Gunner )...

In the fact Sophie it is not imprtant how the animals will be called. Sarloos, us, mix, Wolfdog or if you will call them with your new breed name. One thing is important and one thing is sure:
THEY ARE NOT CZECHOSLOVAKIAN WOLFDOGS.

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by koomak

You want what? You want me sterilized Doz? no, she makes beautiful babies too. . . I do not like that look CLTS German Shepherds..

It is not about the look. But about the FCI rules :

These FCI breeding regulations apply directly to all FCI member countries as well as the contract partners. This means that breeding may only be carried out with pedigree dogs which have a sound temperament, are healthy in functional and hereditary terms and are registered with a studbook or register (appendix) recognised by the FCI.

Mixes and crosses used in France are not pedigree dogs. It means using them breaks the main FCI rule. Their offsprings can not (should not) be registered. If they were registered then it was done against the FCI rules.

It doesn't matter if the puppies are "nice" or not. They are just NOT Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs according to the definition made by the Slovakian Club - garant of the breed by FCI.

Really it must be solved as soon as possible. Because ALL the French breeders will surfer of it ("thanks" to Frank)). I already heard the voices that some breeders from abroad are thinking to force in their countries the $5 regulation from the STANDING ORDERS OF THE FCI. And I know Slovakia already makes use of it:

Any member or contract partner can refuse to (re)-register in its studbook a dog suffering from hereditary defects or featuring defects which go against the Article 2 of the statutes or a dog which does not comply with the rules of selection defined by the member or contract partner in question.
In addition, the members and contract partners are not obliged to automatically register or re-register an imported dog in their studbook if they consider the pedigree to have been prepared incorrectly. In that case, the member and contract partners should clearly explain to the member which issued the certified export pedigree the reason for their denying

It means that Slovakia will refuse registration of dubious Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from abroad and taken to Slovakia. If the French Kennel Club will not clean this mess - if the pedigrees will be not verified and the crosses will spread as it is happening now - you can be prepared that more countries will follow Slovakia and in the worsest case they will REFUSE to register ALL Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from France
(because of the missing credibility of the French pedigrees).

Everybody can see that there is HUGE problem with pedigree cheating in France. But it must be solved in France. All other countries can do (and for sure will do if the problem is not solved) is to ban ALL CsWs from France.

[martiou07]

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

It means that Slovakia will refuse registration of dubious Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from abroad and taken to Slovakia. If the French Kennel Club will not clean this mess - if the pedigrees will be not verified and the crosses will spread as it is happening now - you can be prepared that more countries will follow Slovakia and in the worsest case they will REFUSE to register ALL Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs coming from France
(because of the missing credibility of the French pedigrees).

.

Regrettably, I believe that it is not ready to arrive, as says it Daiva: "money, money,money...."

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by koomak

You want what? You want me sterilized Doz? no, she makes beautiful babies too. . . I do not like that look CLTS German Shepherds. . My dogs have a pedegree. I trust the breeders, Frank and Suski. . . Give me serious evidence and maybe I make arrangements. .

money money money

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by koomak

. My dogs have a pedegree. I trust the breeders, Frank and Suski. . .

You're not serious, are you?
Excuse my open, you probably call them rude words, but either you're blind, stupid or a liar.
Or you just don't want to see or hear the truth.

Michael

[koomak]

Margo. . . .
You think I make babies for money?
You are even more ridiculous than me. . .
You do not know me. . . You are a world I do not like. . I am not a Breeder! !
You, you make babies for money, that's a reality. Thank you God, we are very different! ! Doz will be very little babies, because I love them like my own dog and I fear for them from this terrible world! !
Also, I never sell my babies to breeders. . . You can tell even from Sarka Ariminium it will not have my babies. . His TRAP will not work! ! I decided it was not a good Breeder! ! Her female has got 10 litters! !!!, it's horrible! ! And you say I make babies for money! ! You are ridiculous! Look at you! ! Do not contact me over to have a baby. I'm not stupid! ! I know why you want them! Machiavellian you are! ! I can not cooperate with you, sorry, I can not love you! ! I AM NOT LIKE YOU. . .
I don't like the trap. . .

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Sophie, you know my opinion, people who want to breed wolfdogs can do that, but please do not cheat with the papers! Of course Demoniak is the best csw in the world! And now, where Jos brought light in the case, everybody could be happy, that there is a marvellous in character and fantastic outlooking F 2 pure csw stud male without any american wolfdog heritage! This is real fresh blood.

Best would be to legalize him for official breeding.

read this first:
http://www.csv.sk/sites/default/file...poriadok_0.doc

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Sophie, you know my opinion, people who want to breed wolfdogs can do that, but please do not cheat with the papers! Of course Demoniak is the best csw in the world! And now, where Jos brought light in the case, everybody could be happy, that there is a marvellous in character and fantastic outlooking F 2 pure csw stud male without any american wolfdog heritage! This is real fresh blood.

Best would be to legalize him for official breeding.

Such dogs will be never recognized as real Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs because of the existing rule of the Slovakian CsW Club (which is used also by the Czech Club). It is what Daiva wrote:

Originally Posted by wolfin

read this first:
http://www.csv.sk/sites/default/file...poriadok_0.doc

and it says that Czechoslovakia Wolfdog is only a dog:
u ktorého sú známe všetky generácie predkov ku 1.6.1999
(deň medzinárodného uznania plemena FCI )

English: "by whom all ancestors till 1.06.1999 are known
(it is the date of the international recognition of the breed)"

Simply said: Czechoslovakian Wolfdog can be called ONLY a dog whose all ancestors are known (and whose were registered in 1.06.1999) and come from the OFFICIAL lines.

All "French Wolfdogs", all illegal and fake crosses, all dogs put in the register (which have "empty" pedigrees or even ONE place empty) ARE NOT considered as "pure" (REAL) Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.

Sophie can registed her dogs as Saarloos or she can try to fight for the recognition of this new breed. But her dogs will be NEVER be Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs...

[sylvie:)samira:)]

This is just jealous ..
Sophie's dogs are beautiful and delicious!
worry, ugly dog that is now seen on the breeding.
I see nothing wrong with diamond!
He is a champion of France, is the standard
is Czechoslovak wd!