Saarloos/AWD mixes by CsW

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Originally Posted by leila

označenie je ale iná vec... ale úplné vyhodenie z databáze? alebo len inzerovanie? a nemyslím si, že každý kto má psa z týchto chovateľských staníc tým bude nadšený, pretože iste nechcel kupovať kríženca.

It is exactly the point. Many people and breeders are angry because NOBODY makes something against the breeders of the mixes. Many people who bought the mixes had no idea that the puppy which they buy is Saarloos or AWD-mix - they were looking for a PURE CsW but they get an expensive mongrel.
And they blame Wolfdog.org for "PROMOTION" of the mixes because we "allow" the mixes owner to stay here and advertise their dogs as purebreed.

Already extremely angry was the French breeder who bought the two Crying Wolf dogs and get red puppies because she had to remove from breeding not only both dogs which were not cheap. But she also had to remove all the line (all offsprings of Sybir and Thalia Crying Wolf). Can you imagine how angry were the owners?

It is the reason why more and more people expect that we will make something against the breeders of mixes and their fake CsWs.


But: we do not plan to remove any dogs from the database. The mixes will be put there as it was before. There will be only more markings of the suspected dogs...

All PDL and Foresta incantata Saarlooses (and their offsprings) will be marked in the database and Saarloos Mixes (what they really are).

The the "French Wolfdogs" (AWD-crosses bred by "de La Louve blanche" & co) will be marked as "Mixes" according to the rule:
- whole litters where there are AWD-crosses will be marked as MIXES (in the database: (!_MIX_!)) - it was done so already before
- new is: the parents of such dogs will be marked as possible mixes (in the database (?_MIX_?) because there is never sure if the mixes were done in the specific generation or one generation before).
- all dogs coming from the kennels who breed/bred mixes (de Louba Tar, Passo del Lupo, Crying Wolf, Foresta Incantata) and the Saarloos kennels (for example: d'Emozioni Breizh, Inguz Felan, Sun Gifu) will be marked with (_!_) - it will be the warning for all owners and breeder that they can not be sure if the dogs coming from the mentioned kennels are pure. It will be their decision to use such dogs or not.

At the same time more and more dog owners offer their help. More and more owners send the blood of their dogs to Antagene where everybody who own offspring of their dogs can check if it really match.

Originally Posted by leila

Aj na Slovensku máme psov z CW a chová sa na nich, alebo plánuje. Ale kto sa opováži povedať, že tvoj pes nie je to, čo má v papieroch, ale je to kríženec? Ako to chce WD dokazovať? Nútiť majiteľov, aby spravili DNA testy? Keď chovateľ nie je ochotný poskytnúť DNA rodičov?

I think there is a "cultural" problem - the DNA testing is nothing special and in more and more countries it is already REQUIRED. More countries are thinking about it because it will finish the problem of not honest breeders.
The reason is: the countries which are member of FCI are RESPONSIBLE for their pedigrees. If somebody will cheat pedigrees in CZ the CMKU(?)-your kennel club must care for it. It is the obligation of the FCI member country. CMKU can not say: we can not control it. Because in such case the CMKU would break the most important FCI rule and show that it is not able to control the breeders (to operate).
DNA testing is one of the basic controls over the breeders.

You ask what to do if the breeder do not want to give the DNA of the parents? My question is: WHY a breeder should do it if he/she has noting to hide. If a breeder do not want to give the blood of the parents it is already best proof that it is not responsible breeder who want to hide the cheating. There is no other explanation for it.
None of the real breeders had something against making the DNA tests. Only the cheater are afraid of it.

Originally Posted by leila

p.s.: jo a pokiaľ máte jasné a jednoznačné DNA testy, že dané psy sú krížence, netreba to nahlásiť na FCI? odobrať vrhu papiere a FCI by malo zastaviť činnosť CHS? pokiaľ viem, tam je klauzula, že ak je dokázané kríženie a vydávanie falošných PP, bude zakázaná činnosť CHS.aspoň myslím, že to je takto nejako.

No, it is not working. It was send to the French kennel club - but the club seems not to be interested. They protect the mixes as they are breed by people who are friends of some French judges. We were informed that many officials from the French kennel club know about the mixes but nobody want to "touch this shit". It is the problem - if the officials in Hungary and France do not want to do anything with it. If even the origin clubs in CZ and SK are ignoring the fact of spreading mixes among the population - we were asked to do something with it. And we will do the best we can.