Health results (also DM!!) in the Wolfdog.org database

[admin]

Originally Posted by mijke

I am not happy at all with publishing unofficial test results for several reasons that others did already mention.
And I also am not happy with labs that accept swabs of owners (without checking chip by an independent vet) for DNA tests…. (Owners can make mistakes and breeders have more chances to cheat)

And based on this a lot more mistakes can be made (wrong conclusions) with publishing unofficial results

There are several points:

First - the simple Mendel law allow to "verify" the results. If the breeder will cheat it wil be very fast discovered. And believe me: IF such case will happend I will publish officially the name of the cheater on every version of forum.

Second - cheating can be done in EVERY case. Remember that some breeders are vets and some have friends who are vets. There are always people who will be prepared to cheat. Why it is still allowed by GSD to cheat if all the dogs must be DNA checked? But as I wrote before - it will be discovered sooner or later.


The official results were not published "just like this" - for the whole time it was included in the database but not published. And there was not even one case where the published results were wrong - all the unofficial results were confirmed. The only mistakes which we fixed were... exactly the results made by the "official" laboratories.

And last but not least: you know that some breeders who have the biggest problems will never test/publish the results of their dogs. And the human mind is made this way that everything what is not tested is kept for "clear". Publishing the results basing on the results of the offsprings can significant imprive the health of the breed even if some breeders will not "cooperate".

And for the end: exactly thanks to the laboratories who do not give official certificates it was possible to make the selection who will help us to reduce the number of dogs "at risk". A large number of dogs was tested and the results are as good as bu the official laboratories. Tested dogs mean that it is possible for breeders to make the selection. If we would base ONLY on the official results made by the official laboratories we could already NOW stop ANY selelction - the illness will spread because before almost nobody was interested to test their dogs.
The best example is the test for dwarfism - the price reduced the amount of tested dogs to minimum. No good selection can be made and because of it no selection is done. The possibility to test the dogs didn't changed ANYTHING. And it will be so till one of the universities will develop another project who will test dogs for free (as it is done with DM) or for a very small amount of money....
Sad but true.

So the disscussion about publishing of the unofficial results and accepting only the one made by "official" laboratories is the disscussion between the if we will make the sepection OR NOT....

[koboldine]

Originally Posted by Admin

And last but not least: you know that some breeders who have the biggest problems will never test/publish the results of their dogs. And the human mind is made this way that everything what is not tested is kept for "clear". Publishing the results basing on the results of the offsprings can significant imprive the health of the breed even if some breeders will not "cooperate".

THIS is an argument - using this to force everyone to test - do you think it´ll work?

Originally Posted by Admin

And it will be so till one of the universities will develop another project who will test dogs for free (as it is done with DM) or for a very small amount of money....

Please tell me which project and university does the DM Test for free - and how can one send in the samples?
Because I´d like to test, but it is quite expensive...and my dog ist not supposed to have any offsprings, therefore I waited...

[admin]

Originally Posted by koboldine

Please tell me which project and university does the DM Test for free - and how can one send in the samples?
Because I´d like to test, but it is quite expensive...and my dog ist not supposed to have any offsprings, therefore I waited...

There is a project running on the university in Prague who is checking the DM by Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. All you have to do is to send the blood of your dog (EDTA) OR the swabs with DNA material taken from the inner cheek. Send it together with the information of your dog to:

Daniela Čílová
Katedra genetiky a šlechtění
Česká zemědělská univerzita v Praze
Kamýcká 129
165 21 Praha 6 - Suchdol
Czech Republic

and wait for the results.

Especially thanks to this project there is a HUGE improvement if it comes to the DM testing and the possiblity to make DM selection by our breed.

[koboldine]

Originally Posted by Admin

There is a project running on the university in Prague who is checking the DM by Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. All you have to do is to send the blood of your dog (EDTA) OR the swabs with DNA material taken from the inner cheek. Send it together with the information of your dog to:

Daniela Čílová
Katedra genetiky a šlechtění
Česká zemědělská univerzita v Praze
Kamýcká 129
165 21 Praha 6 - Suchdol
Czech Republic

and wait for the results.

Especially thanks to this project there is a HUGE improvement if it comes to the DM testing and the possiblity to make DM selection by our breed.

Is it ok to send an english documentation of the dog - or does it have to be in czech?

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Admin

There is a project running on the university in Prague who is checking the DM by Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. All you have to do is to send the blood of your dog (EDTA) OR the swabs with DNA material taken from the inner cheek. Send it together with the information of your dog to:

Daniela Čílová
Katedra genetiky a šlechtění
Česká zemědělská univerzita v Praze
Kamýcká 129
165 21 Praha 6 - Suchdol
Czech Republic

and wait for the results.

Especially thanks to this project there is a HUGE improvement if it comes to the DM testing and the possiblity to make DM selection by our breed.

How & who should take the sample? Can I ask my vet to take a sample in Hořovice for example & will the results be considered official?

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Baz

How & who should take the sample? Can I ask my vet to take a sample in Hořovice for example & will the results be considered official?

I took my dog to the vet, asked her to check her chip, take the material with a swab, dry it, put into the envelope prepared earlier with my dog's name & chip no & my e-mail, seal it with a stamp and send to Daniela.

Results of the dog's family immediately verify his/her result, so no cheating is possible just like errors are spotted very soon (see the case of Eury). I had similar doubts when the testing started, but the more dogs are tested, the more the results are reliable.

There are people who belive in miracles and many strange things keep happening in their kennels, which BTW they never bother to explain but the rest of the results fit the "family pattern" perfectly.

[Nebulosa]

Then, if there is an dwarf pup in the litter mean both parents might be carrier of the gene, even if they haven't the official results, will it be published?

[mijke]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Then, if there is an dwarf pup in the litter mean both parents might be carrier of the gene, even if they haven't the official results, will it be published?

Maybe I then can ask all the CsW dwarf owners for permission to publish
Sorry just a joke!

I know owners who did not want to harm the breeder (because he/she is a good one and did have bad luck with the combination) And that was the only reason these owners did not want to share the test info.

Also there are owners with "probably dwarfs" , but I'll never publish this without official test results.
This all is for me a very complicated matter......
Because:

I know some people or clubs in several countries still deny dwarfism is an issue in the breed.......
I know there are more CsW's carrier of this mutation then were ever published.....
I know breeders who have (proven) carriers breed with no tested dogs.....

So sometimes I become very sad about this all...........

[CDaniela]

I am not afraid of fraud. Breeders want to know true results of their dogs, they want to work with them. Many breeders only tested for their needs without publication.

[CDaniela]

Originally Posted by Baz

How & who should take the sample? Can I ask my vet to take a sample in Hořovice for example & will the results be considered official?

Pokud chcete aby byly vaše výsledky považovány za oficiální, musíte poslat vzorek do některé z akreditovaných laboratoří a samozřejmě ho zaplatit. Pokud vám stačí výsledek neoficiální, přijeďte se psem na jeden z podzimních svodů a bonitací v ČR a nechte ho v rámci výzkumu DM odebrat a otestovat zdarma - s neoficiálním výsledkem.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by CDaniela

Pokud chcete aby byly vaše výsledky považovány za oficiální, musíte poslat vzorek do některé z akreditovaných laboratoří a samozřejmě ho zaplatit. Pokud vám stačí výsledek neoficiální, přijeďte se psem na jeden z podzimních svodů a bonitací v ČR a nechte ho v rámci výzkumu DM odebrat a otestovat zdarma - s neoficiálním výsledkem.

Díky za informace. Je to dobrý nápad, já jsem za Skotska, takže nechci platit ale chci pomoct, oficiální nebo neoficiální, pro mě to jedno...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Maybe we should continue in Gaelic...

[CDaniela]

Originally Posted by Baz

Díky za informace. Je to dobrý nápad, já jsem za Skotska, takže nechci platit ale chci pomoct, oficiální nebo neoficiální, pro mě to jedno...

Na českém foru běží diskuze o DM, koukněte tam. Tady by nás brzy všichni sežrali (za češtinu).

[Baz]

Originally Posted by CDaniela

Pokud chcete aby byly vaše výsledky považovány za oficiální, musíte poslat vzorek do některé z akreditovaných laboratoří a samozřejmě ho zaplatit. Pokud vám stačí výsledek neoficiální, přijeďte se psem na jeden z podzimních svodů a bonitací v ČR a nechte ho v rámci výzkumu DM odebrat a otestovat zdarma - s neoficiálním výsledkem.

Originally Posted by Baz

For those who don't understand Czech, Daniela was saying that it's possible to have your dog tested for free at the Czech club meetings & bonitations this autumn as part of the university study, only the results won't be official. Worth knowing for those of you who are considering travelling.

It seems perhaps that due to funding reasons, Daniela is primarily interested in Czech dogs (ie dogs resident in the Czech Republic), so I'm not sure if my earlier advice to come to one of the meetings was a great idea. I think the same maybe applies to postal samples too. Daniela can you clarify your position for us please?

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Baz

It seems perhaps that due to funding reasons, Daniela is primarily interested in Czech dogs (ie dogs resident in the Czech Republic), so I'm not sure if my earlier advice to come to one of the meetings was a great idea.

Who told you this? Daniela has tested most of Polish & Lithuanian dogs, also ones from Slovakia and has samples sent from the UK too!

PS Daniela, could you tell us when the stage of gathering samples for the DM study closes? While talking with people I've got the impression many think it'll be open forever, but it doesn't make any sense to me ...

[tupacs2legs]

Originally Posted by Baz

It seems perhaps that due to funding reasons, Daniela is primarily interested in Czech dogs (ie dogs resident in the Czech Republic), so I'm not sure if my earlier advice to come to one of the meetings was a great idea. I think the same maybe applies to postal samples too. Daniela can you clarify your position for us please?

I hope not....that's where my sample has gone!!