What is the average content of the Czech wolfdog?

hanninadina · 30-09-2011, 12:29

Nebulosa, Oxbow is one of the dogs who is foundation stock to the Tamaskan breed.

Yuko, the stud book for csw is still open!

Of course it is interesting to know the wolf %. I know a lot of people who are interested in that number. And that is the reason why wolfdog.org did throw it out! If it is only a number and nothing value, why the hell it was thrown out?

But the point is, that the main important thing in a wolfdog is the wolfgenes or dog genes which he gets from his parents. So you can find in Finland some F 2, F 3 wolfdogs with only 25 to 32 % bred out of an american wolfdog and Siberian Husky who act like a F 2 high content with 80 %. So in the end the wolf % is not so interesting.

But because wolf % are not so interested and only a number I am wondering why here some people say and do so, that a csw is "only" a recogonized dog breed????? If the wolf and dog genes are important for the animals so you will find of coure F 6 animals who act more like wolf than like a dog!

I wrote it several times even in Alaskan Malamute, Siberian Husky, Basenji, Saluki, Chow Chow, Shar Pei, Afghan dog and some old more than 500 years old breeds do have wolf genes in them! So it lays on the hands that a csw is full of wolfgenes of course! Wolfgenetic scientist will laugh loud if you ask them that question.

Galy, there are even american wolfdogs F 2 who work as therapy dogs. By the way I know what I am talking about, I have an almost 8 year old csw female, an almost 6 year old csw male, a 3,5 year old very high content american male, a 4 year high content american female and two pups 6 month high content male and female from my female. And the female is a better dog than all dogs I know.

Christian
www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de

tupacs2legs · 30-09-2011, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Quote:

Alaskan Malamute, Siberian Husky, Basenji, Saluki, Chow Chow, Shar Pei, Afghan dog and some old more than 500 years old breeds do have wolf genes in them!

Christian
www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de

yes,both Sibes and Mals are amongst the 14 most ancient breeds of domestic dog, and as such, are in evolutionary terms, further from their wolf origins than most other domestic breeds.

yukidomari · 30-09-2011, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Yuko, the stud book for csw is still open!

Besides the breeders hanging papers and unofficial outcrossing, can you help me understand which FCI-participant country openly allows outside studs which are accepted FCI-wide?

Thank you.

hanninadina · 01-10-2011, 10:32

Tupa, what do you mean, mutation was runing earlier and that is why you think they are more far away from the wolf? Wow, this opinion is the first time I read. But why do you for example Malamutes have 43 ways to express themselves, but a german shepard has only 12? Mimik in their face body, I mean. And why does a Basenji gets only 1 time a year in heat???

I would say you are completely wrong. Better you read this paper http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture08837.html . The main author Prof. Dr. Bob Wayne sent it to me, if anyone wants a pdf copy please mail me, I will send [email protected] . I couldnot find the whole article without paying.

Yuko, do you know Monika Soukupova, breeder z Molu Es of ccsw for 25 years? She is special judge, dog trainer pp. She told me last year during world dog show, that the stud book is still open. And so far I know the clubs in each countries are allowed to cross in a wolf, if they can expalin why it would be necessary for the breed.

Christian

yukidomari · 01-10-2011, 11:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Yuko, do you know Monika Soukupova, breeder z Molu Es of ccsw for 25 years? She is special judge, dog trainer pp. She told me last year during world dog show, that the stud book is still open. And so far I know the clubs in each countries are allowed to cross in a wolf, if they can expalin why it would be necessary for the breed.

Christian

Hi, thanks for your answer. I am familiar with the name you mentioned. But what you describe - clubs being able to outcross with consensus - is not an ' open stud book', at least, not how the term is used in the USA. EVERY national KC recognized breed club of any breed in the US can vote to accept outcrosses, essentially it means no breed has a closed stud book.

Open stud book as I understand means the KC accepts for registration dogs of unknown back ground, usually by phenotype, from a club or anyone without many exceptions. Usually it occurs at the foundation years of a breed.

By the way, the way you explain it, are clubs are ONLY allowed to cross in wolves as an outcross option?

hanninadina · 01-10-2011, 11:27

I am not sure, if I understand you right - maybe language barrier -, but in germany for example, I could go with a from me bred for example F 1 czech wolfdog to be phenotyped. The german akc = vdh would give me register papers and I would be allowed to do shows. I am not sure in that moment, if I could use him immediateley as stud dog, but so far I know under certain circumstances I am allowed if taking a female with normal pedigree.

In germany the csw clubs are not recognized from VDH. It means to get the permission for breeding it will do the german akc. In the french herding dogs Briard for example the two german clubs are allowed to give permission. The vdh wants to have their hand on the breed. The two clubs are trying for many years to get the permisson. So in case of germany the vdh must allow. So far I remember the club must always talk to the country FCI club (means akc, vdh, enci pp.) to get permission to cross in for example a wolf.

In germany they do hybrid breeding with Eurasier. They cross in Samoyed. this dogs are called hybrid as well. And this went with permission of club and vdh.

Christian

michaelundinaeichhorn · 01-10-2011, 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

Open stud book as I understand means the KC accepts for registration dogs of unknown back ground, usually by phenotype, from a club or anyone without many exceptions. Usually it occurs at the foundation years of a breed.

By the way, the way you explain it, are clubs are ONLY allowed to cross in wolves as an outcross option?

Hello,

the Slowakian Club, who has as we all know the patronat for the breed, decided some time ago in response to Mutara and other illegal "outcrosses" not to accept any dog that is registered. As far as I know this decision hasn´t changed.
The VDH (German KC) decided in agreement with both German Clubs to give registry pedigrees in future only for show purposes. Pedigrees for breeding will only be given in special cases like DNA-proofed offspring of FCI parents. The reason for this decision have been registered dogs with shepherd parentage, hybrids out of other countries etc.
Being the FCI what it is this has not much influence on other countries but nonetheless is not an open stud book.

Ina

tupacs2legs · 02-10-2011, 03:06

Yes basenji's only come in to season once a year,but it is not normal for the siberian to do so,and some giant/very large breeds only come into season once a year.

Tassle · 02-10-2011, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

Yes basenji's only come in to season once a year,but it is not normal for the siberian to do so,and some giant/very large breeds only come into season once a year.

.....so do some Border collies!!

30-09-2011, 12:29	#1
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	Nebulosa, Oxbow is one of the dogs who is foundation stock to the Tamaskan breed. Yuko, the stud book for csw is still open! Of course it is interesting to know the wolf %. I know a lot of people who are interested in that number. And that is the reason why wolfdog.org did throw it out! If it is only a number and nothing value, why the hell it was thrown out? But the point is, that the main important thing in a wolfdog is the wolfgenes or dog genes which he gets from his parents. So you can find in Finland some F 2, F 3 wolfdogs with only 25 to 32 % bred out of an american wolfdog and Siberian Husky who act like a F 2 high content with 80 %. So in the end the wolf % is not so interesting. But because wolf % are not so interested and only a number I am wondering why here some people say and do so, that a csw is "only" a recogonized dog breed????? If the wolf and dog genes are important for the animals so you will find of coure F 6 animals who act more like wolf than like a dog! I wrote it several times even in Alaskan Malamute, Siberian Husky, Basenji, Saluki, Chow Chow, Shar Pei, Afghan dog and some old more than 500 years old breeds do have wolf genes in them! So it lays on the hands that a csw is full of wolfgenes of course! Wolfgenetic scientist will laugh loud if you ask them that question. Galy, there are even american wolfdogs F 2 who work as therapy dogs. By the way I know what I am talking about, I have an almost 8 year old csw female, an almost 6 year old csw male, a 3,5 year old very high content american male, a 4 year high content american female and two pups 6 month high content male and female from my female. And the female is a better dog than all dogs I know. Christian www.wolfdogs-siouxtala.de Last edited by hanninadina; 30-09-2011 at 12:31.

01-10-2011, 10:32	#4
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	Tupa, what do you mean, mutation was runing earlier and that is why you think they are more far away from the wolf? Wow, this opinion is the first time I read. But why do you for example Malamutes have 43 ways to express themselves, but a german shepard has only 12? Mimik in their face body, I mean. And why does a Basenji gets only 1 time a year in heat??? I would say you are completely wrong. Better you read this paper http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture08837.html . The main author Prof. Dr. Bob Wayne sent it to me, if anyone wants a pdf copy please mail me, I will send [email protected] . I couldnot find the whole article without paying. Yuko, do you know Monika Soukupova, breeder z Molu Es of ccsw for 25 years? She is special judge, dog trainer pp. She told me last year during world dog show, that the stud book is still open. And so far I know the clubs in each countries are allowed to cross in a wolf, if they can expalin why it would be necessary for the breed. Christian

01-10-2011, 11:27	#6
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	I am not sure, if I understand you right - maybe language barrier -, but in germany for example, I could go with a from me bred for example F 1 czech wolfdog to be phenotyped. The german akc = vdh would give me register papers and I would be allowed to do shows. I am not sure in that moment, if I could use him immediateley as stud dog, but so far I know under certain circumstances I am allowed if taking a female with normal pedigree. In germany the csw clubs are not recognized from VDH. It means to get the permission for breeding it will do the german akc. In the french herding dogs Briard for example the two german clubs are allowed to give permission. The vdh wants to have their hand on the breed. The two clubs are trying for many years to get the permisson. So in case of germany the vdh must allow. So far I remember the club must always talk to the country FCI club (means akc, vdh, enci pp.) to get permission to cross in for example a wolf. In germany they do hybrid breeding with Eurasier. They cross in Samoyed. this dogs are called hybrid as well. And this went with permission of club and vdh. Christian

02-10-2011, 03:06	#8
tupacs2legs rookie Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: london Posts: 320	Yes basenji's only come in to season once a year,but it is not normal for the siberian to do so,and some giant/very large breeds only come into season once a year.