British Kennel Club Recognition

tupacs2legs · 23-09-2011, 21:38

......club aside,

i have no reason to doubt my dog is a csv just because he doesnt have an fci piece of paper,as far as i am aware there is one dog of 'de loubar tar' in his pedigree and he has not been marked as a suspect(correct me if i am wrong

)

i have met both my dogs parents,and even though my breeder breeds mixes she has always been open an honest about what she does and not been secretive about it in anyway,(and that is not meant to be an excuse for crossing ,just fact)in all the years she has owned/bred her csv's ,Tupac was from only her 2nd pure litter!(she has only had 4 i believe)i had known her from before(a few years) regarding a long story about a 'rescue' (not wolfdog)and the trust i have in her started then,as she was the only one that told the truth in the matter and actually helped!

i do feel it would be easier to use fresh fci imported stock....but i think its a little unfair to the pure dogs that are here....i do understand though

i love my dog no matter what,and love him no matter what he is........... but i do believe him to be a csv(albeit without papers)untill proven wrong.

now go on...throw the stones at me

hedeon · 23-09-2011, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by tupacs2legs

...i do feel it would be easier to use fresh fci imported stock....but i think its a little unfair to the pure dogs that are here....i do understand though

i love my dog no matter what,and love him no matter what he is........... but i do believe him to be a csv(albeit without papers)untill proven wrong.

now go on...throw the stones at me

I wont. I know it is unfair. I feel really bad to even think the way I have described

. I believe you are right. But no other way to separate CSV from crosses comes to my mind. And whoever will be trying to establish this breed in this country, and will have purity of breed in mind, will have to do it somehow. This is really tough... Maybe other people will have other ideas.

P.S. Rona was right, that really looks similar to situation in Poland when Solidarnosc took over communists.

Rona · 23-09-2011, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by hedeon

P.S. Rona was right, that really looks similar to situation in Poland when Solidarnosc took over communists.

Especially, there were also some "good" communists and quite a few very corrupted anti-communists...

hedeon · 23-09-2011, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rona

Especially, there were also some "good" communists and quite a few very corrupted anti-communists...

Exactly....

GalomyOak · 24-09-2011, 02:56

It's a shame that the original dogs that were imported from mainland Europe were not DNA profiled (I think at least one has passed away?). In that way, you could collect DNA back to the original dogs. I have encouraged AKC to put a mandate on AKC profiling all CSVs that are bred. Currently, it must only be done for dogs that are imported, multiple-sire, or AI. I would like to see the same for all natural coverings of domestically bred dogs as well.

It has taken about 3 years to get to the stage that we are at in the US (26 club households, 3 registered litters on the ground, acceptance by AKC as an official club this past month). We had our first "meeting" (more of a meet-up) in 2008, but most of those owners weren't too interested in being very involved with a club, and are not currently involved with our club (one owner has passed away). I think you will find this as well - many owners are happy to be just that, and choose not to be actively involved with a club, for a variety of reasons. It seems to be the breeders (with varying motives) and the "die-hards" who are the driving (and shaping) forces. Dialogue is the key element initially - a strong set of leaders is great to build knowledge, redirect/resolve disagreements, and to help people find their niche in the club. We are hopeful that we will have an "official" meeting (as well as a breed specialty show perhaps!) in 2012.

jefta · 24-09-2011, 09:17

In my opinion there is only one way to rebuild british population-start all over again but rationally.

One very important fact-none responsible breeder will use progeny of dogs with no dokumented orgin! If they will be use in so small populacion as british csv in few years after recognition they will be ubiquitous in population and hole UK population will be useless for FCI breeders for ever.
Moreover, if breeder have choose between owner from FCI country or disappearing his blood because of mixing with no dokumented dogs will sold more promising puppies to FCI. For UK owners stay only puppies that nobody else won`t buy. Do you want to start importing future breeding dogs from this worst position

tupacs2legs · 24-09-2011, 13:36

ok i know im naive but.....

the kennel club accepted the breed originally then withdrew it because of defra's stance,so was it a problem with the dogs themselves? i would of thought if they had granted it the paperwork was there,so surely its about showing the kennel club that defra was wrong and have themselves changed their minds

24-09-2011, 02:56	#5
GalomyOak Howling Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 436	It's a shame that the original dogs that were imported from mainland Europe were not DNA profiled (I think at least one has passed away?). In that way, you could collect DNA back to the original dogs. I have encouraged AKC to put a mandate on AKC profiling all CSVs that are bred. Currently, it must only be done for dogs that are imported, multiple-sire, or AI. I would like to see the same for all natural coverings of domestically bred dogs as well. It has taken about 3 years to get to the stage that we are at in the US (26 club households, 3 registered litters on the ground, acceptance by AKC as an official club this past month). We had our first "meeting" (more of a meet-up) in 2008, but most of those owners weren't too interested in being very involved with a club, and are not currently involved with our club (one owner has passed away). I think you will find this as well - many owners are happy to be just that, and choose not to be actively involved with a club, for a variety of reasons. It seems to be the breeders (with varying motives) and the "die-hards" who are the driving (and shaping) forces. Dialogue is the key element initially - a strong set of leaders is great to build knowledge, redirect/resolve disagreements, and to help people find their niche in the club. We are hopeful that we will have an "official" meeting (as well as a breed specialty show perhaps!) in 2012. __________________ "What lies behind us and what lies ahead of us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us."~Henry David Thoreau http://www.galomyoak.com

24-09-2011, 09:17	#6
jefta Call Me Sexy Srdcervac Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Wroclaw Posts: 1,233	In my opinion there is only one way to rebuild british population-start all over again but rationally. One very important fact-none responsible breeder will use progeny of dogs with no dokumented orgin! If they will be use in so small populacion as british csv in few years after recognition they will be ubiquitous in population and hole UK population will be useless for FCI breeders for ever. Moreover, if breeder have choose between owner from FCI country or disappearing his blood because of mixing with no dokumented dogs will sold more promising puppies to FCI. For UK owners stay only puppies that nobody else won`t buy. Do you want to start importing future breeding dogs from this worst position __________________

23-09-2011, 21:38	#1
tupacs2legs rookie Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: london Posts: 320	......club aside, i have no reason to doubt my dog is a csv just because he doesnt have an fci piece of paper,as far as i am aware there is one dog of 'de loubar tar' in his pedigree and he has not been marked as a suspect(correct me if i am wrong ) i have met both my dogs parents,and even though my breeder breeds mixes she has always been open an honest about what she does and not been secretive about it in anyway,(and that is not meant to be an excuse for crossing ,just fact)in all the years she has owned/bred her csv's ,Tupac was from only her 2nd pure litter!(she has only had 4 i believe)i had known her from before(a few years) regarding a long story about a 'rescue' (not wolfdog)and the trust i have in her started then,as she was the only one that told the truth in the matter and actually helped! i do feel it would be easier to use fresh fci imported stock....but i think its a little unfair to the pure dogs that are here....i do understand though i love my dog no matter what,and love him no matter what he is........... but i do believe him to be a csv(albeit without papers)untill proven wrong. now go on...throw the stones at me

24-09-2011, 13:36	#7
tupacs2legs rookie Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: london Posts: 320	ok i know im naive but..... the kennel club accepted the breed originally then withdrew it because of defra's stance,so was it a problem with the dogs themselves? i would of thought if they had granted it the paperwork was there,so surely its about showing the kennel club that defra was wrong and have themselves changed their minds