Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored)

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Admin

It seems that "affected" are not only suggested litters of T-Crying wolf and S-Crying Wolf but also V-Crying Wolf and Y-Crying Wolf. And their offsprings..

I need some clarification on this - the "Y" litter, as in Yolka? This is Pollux's mother and this is very important to me.

http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/7930

Other than suspicions, is there any proof that other breeds were mixed into her lines (other than the initial project back in the 1950's)?

Pollux is a wonderful dog in looks (he's drop dead gorgeous!) but as you mentioned, he is a little large and we always assumed his temperament is a result of his upbringing (a lot of neglect). (Too bad, too, because if we could get around the skittishness then he would be awesom for acting!)

If it tuns out that he is a Saarloos mix we will make sure he isn't used in any breeding program here in the USA.

From what I've heard in the past DNA tests are not that relaible, mixes show up as pure and vice versa. How can we check?

As for "red" - this is *very* common in GSDs especially in German lines, our Kiri is VERY red and if the genes were in the initial projct then there is a good chance that they could still be in some lines, just hidden especially if red is recessive.

I think there is a full litter mate / sibling to Pollux here in the USA also (San Diego, perhaps?) I think either Marcy or Pete knows them. If it turns out Yolka is a mix then we'll need to track these people down and let them know.

Added: We may DNA test Pollux (Lunas Mom and I are discussing it now).

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by draggar

From what I've heard in the past DNA tests are not that relaible, mixes show up as pure and vice versa. How can we check?

Are you talking about the DNA tests that attempt to match clusters of DNA to 'general' clusters of DNA in known breeds, thereby giving a 'breed guess' on dogs of unknown heritage? Those tests are unreliable.

However the tests described here aren't of that type. The point is to get DNA from the supposed parents and match (or unmatch) DNA from the litter or other relatives. These DNA tests are the same that are used in courts and are considered near infallible barring taking DNA from false parents to begin with.

[draggar]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

However the tests described here aren't of that type. The point is to get DNA from the supposed parents and match (or unmatch) DNA from the litter or other relatives. These DNA tests are the same that are used in courts and are considered near infallible barring taking DNA from false parents to begin with.

Originally Posted by Admin

We ask for help to clear this problem. The breeder do not want to cooperate (no wonder if she knews what she is doing). The Hungarian Kennel is also not a big help: it was already proven by the problems with export pedigrees and another issues connected with Crying Wolf kennel.

So it looks like we may be hitting a dead end if both kennels (CW and the Hungarian kennel where the "Y" litter was bred) are not cooperating (it sounds like nether is willing to subit dogs to a DNA test). It doesn't sound like the suspicion are from Yolka's mother (Flash) but more towards her father, Issar (if he is the father?). It sounds to me that Flash was sent to that kennel to be bred so I don't think CW actually witnessed the breeding.

I'm open to suggestions to see if we can get him tested and confirmed.