Wolfdogs with fake FCI pedigrees in Italy

[admin]

Originally Posted by Martab

This is not true, the Italian Club's intention is to take serious actions together with ENCI to control possible "fake pedigrees". Who are you to tell the contrary of what is happening?

Good to know. As you for sure know one of the hybrids with false pedigree is already imported to Italy. Do you plan to do something with it?

[Navarre]

Two members of the technical Board of italian club breed with Mutaras, one of them even with fake pedigree!
You may expect a huge help from Italian club !

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Navarre

Two members of the technical Board of italian club breed with Mutaras, one of them even with fake pedigree!
You may expect a huge help from Italian club !

And what are FCI doing about it ???
FCI working against mixbreeding Lolll... " $$$$$£££££... Zzzzzz.... "

Best regards / Mikael

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Mikael

And what are FCI doing about it ???
FCI working against mixbreeding Lolll... " $$$$$£££££... Zzzzzz.... "

Best regards / Mikael

If the FCI is anything like AKC then they will only intervene with mixed breeds when the majority of people in that breed find it beneficial to themselves (COUGHCOUGHDALMATIONSCOUGHCOUGH),

Even puppy mills are allowed to register dogs in the AKC and join breed clubs (COUGHCOUGHHUNTECOUGHCOUGH).

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by draggar

If the FCI is anything like AKC then they will only intervene with mixed breeds when the majority of people in that breed find it beneficial to themselves (COUGHCOUGHDALMATIONSCOUGHCOUGH),

Even puppy mills are allowed to register dogs in the AKC and join breed clubs (COUGHCOUGHHUNTECOUGHCOUGH).

Nice they got there own Mixbreed dog name for all mixes
But very very hard to spell

Maybe we can ask FCI to have a breed called " Pure Mix Breed Dog "

Best regards / Mikael

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Maybe we can ask FCI to have a breed called " Pure Mix Breed Dog "

Best regards / Mikael

Which country would 'own' this breed? I predict a fight

[Martab]

Originally Posted by Admin

No, it is something totally different. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the Mutaras were registered in Italy on the official way. Maybe it is moral not correct ...

This is also what I knew! And as far as I heard the LIR/RSR has been given by Czech Republic judges at first, not Italian judges. But this doesn't make much difference. It can be criticized, but it's done 2according to the rules"
That's why I don't understand why Navarre or others talk about fake pedigrees with Mutaras
Then, in hypothesis, also these "suspected" dogs from La Louvre Blanche or others (even if the pedigree will be "annulled") could take LIR/RSR pedigree, but it's different, as people which would want to use them, would know that they are using "CsW type kind of dog" without having any certainty about their genealogy. As it is for any LIR/RSR dog.
But this is permitted by the rules. They cannot be considered "fake pedigrees"
Completely different is believing that a dog has a certain genealogy, when it's not the case

[Navarre]

As far we know Alaska was this dog:http://www.wolfdog.org/ita/dbase/d5570.html
In this photo she partecipated to an expo' (we were there) and she wins CAC, i think she had a pedigree (or not?)

After that she disappear and a very strange female, named Alaska, was registered in Italy with (new?) RSR pedigree.

I call it a "fake pedigree", rules (broken) or not.

[admin]

Originally Posted by Martab

But this is permitted by the rules. They cannot be considered "fake pedigrees"
Completely different is believing that a dog has a certain genealogy, when it's not the case

But you have already a dog with fake pedigree in Italy:
http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/11911

It is the illegal F1 cross with fake FCI pedigree from Finland.

[Martab]

Originally Posted by Navarre

Two members of the technical Board of italian club breed with Mutaras, one of them even with fake pedigree!
You may expect a huge help from Italian club !

... laughing behind a computer and not doing anything concrete is unfortunately the typical Italian way of solving problems... but I don't believe it's the most efficient

[Navarre]

The italian club has no power on pedigree, but can have power on his members; if you can, join with member of council that think like you (there are? I think one or two but...) and take action at first against the members of breeding committee that breed with Mutaras with faked pedigree.

After that the club may have the legitimacy to ask something to their members or to ENCI.

[Martab]

Originally Posted by Navarre

members of breeding committee that breed with Mutaras with faked pedigree.
After that the club may have the legitimacy to ask something to their members or to ENCI.

This is your point of view, but I don't agree with it
What I know is that they have normal LIR (RSR), and not fake pedigrees...but you were in the Club when this Mutara thing happened, not me...we already had this discussion in Italian forum and I don't believe it's of any use repeating it here

I can only answer for myself and for what I know NOW is happening in the Italian Club. Not more than that.
The Club IS activating for this problem. This is a matter of fact and is written in the boards of directors meetings minutes.
This is what I said. Simple.
You believe that the Club MUST take actions according to a certain sequence of steps you decided? Ok, that's your point of view.
But this doesn't mean that the Club is not doing what I said and hereby confirm. Fact. Not opinions.

[Navarre]

Ok, so stranger faked pedigree is BAD and italian faked pedigree is GOOD ?
Stranger MIX are bad and italian MIX are good ?


I don't know anything of DNA tests, but If breeders agree, I think should be easy to establish a relationship between official Mutaras offspring like Fenrir and so called "RSR pedigree" csw (Alaska) used by Passo del Lupo...

p.s.
as I said to you in ita forum, Susanna leaved the board of cclc many months before the Mutaras came to Italy.

[Jal]

Facts? ... Want to talk about facts?
So I would like a little clarification. and take a step back.
we are talking about legal or illegal market? (Easily traceable thanks to the squawking of Facebook....)
Everything becomes easier once clarified this detail.
because then the words CITES and Authority recover their true meaning...

[Martab]

Originally Posted by Admin

Good to know. As you for sure know one of the hybrids with false pedigree is already imported to Italy. Do you plan to do something with it?

I know that dogs suspected to have fake pedigrees came in. Some of them are well known because of Wolfdog, some others are not "openly attacked" by people writing here but nevertheless may exist.
What I want to say is that we need rules contrasting every "fake pedigree" matter

The problem is: how to prove that/if these pedigrees are fake,and what to to in case there is evidence they are.

I believe it firstly have to be checked which remedies are allowed to verify these "not clear" matters.
As you probably already know, in Italy ENCI decides everything and the Club has not any power on pedigrees.
Nevertheless, the club can propose ENCI to try to take some remedies
First of all, it has to be checked if any "control" and "measure" can be carried out:
(1) from a practical point of view (for instance: DNA test, how does it work? which entity is able to do it? can it reveal what we are looking for?), and
(2) from a legal point of view (people cannot be obliged to do this DNA test, but one thing that may be done by ENCI againts these "fake foreign pedigrees) may be to "block" the release of export pedigrees in Italy until this test is done)
This is the first and more important step to do, and the Club is keeping information on the above points