Luna the service dog

draggar · 04-05-2011, 11:38

Therapy dogs also usually require insurance (or its highly recommended). Also, their training must be outside the realm of what a normal dog would do. For example, an emotional support animal (ESA) is not considered a service animal because what they're "trained" to do is basically be a good pet - which any dog will do (if treated well etc.), love their handler, etc..

But, there is also psychiatric (sp?) support animals which help with severe mental issues like post traumatic disorder and are considered service dogs (these are also the *only* ones that require documentation - usually a doctor's note / prescription).

Therapy dogs are not service dogs because they mainly just need to be friendly but they do require a PAT (Public Access Test) certification (in a nutshell an advanced CGC). As Yuki mentioned, they can go where they are invited (hospitals, schools, etc.)

Yes, 10 week old puppies cannot be service dogs but they can be in training (IMO extremely important to start as soon as you can - Luna's "training" started as soon as we got her but early on, until they can physically do the work, it is exposure, socialization, obedience, exposure, socialization, obedience, exposure, socialization, and obedience.

When she is older (and after her elbows and hips are checked) she'll start with the actual support and mobility assistance training.

Luna is doing extremely well with her training. She's a little stand-offish still but far better than we expected. She's getting the obedience down and her stamina! WOW! The only other dog that out-worked her was Kiri (but she's 4 now and has a well insulated coat). It was a hard week for all 3 of them and they all did well. (Yes, Zorro did well, too, but he's getting up there in years, he's 8 now so we probably have at least another 3-5 years of him now, most of that should be full time (he is the primary now).

We started to do this with Pollux, his physical build would be awesome for it (he's big and strong) but he washed out because he was way to skittish (we may give his training another go in a few months).

yukidomari · 04-05-2011, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by draggar

Yes, 10 week old puppies cannot be service dogs but they can be in training (IMO extremely important to start as soon as you can - Luna's "training" started as soon as we got her but early on, until they can physically do the work, it is exposure, socialization, obedience, exposure, socialization, obedience, exposure, socialization, and obedience.

Of course, but whether you want to call it potential SD (I personally do, at ten weeks, because I don't think it's possible to gauge appropriate character at that age to even begin thinking about task training or public access training) or an SDiT, both still aren't federally protected and have access limited (or provided for) by state law. Some states are very SDiT friendly with laws that provide accomodation for them almost the same as full working SDs (like PA), others are not. In some states, SDiTs are not allowed any more access than any other pet dog, which can make public access training more difficult, when the only places you can go with an SDiT are places like PetCo.

In either case, SDiTs and potentials aren't protected under things like the ACAA of 1986 which grants access to full SDs to board airplanes free of charge in the cabin, etc.

It's easily abused though, since there aren't any certification requirements in the states. Most gatekeepers aren't familiar with what is an SDiT, what is an SD, what is a PSD, what is an ESA, and what is a TD. Most don't know what questions they are legally allowed to ask. And so it's easy for people routinely misrepresent their dogs to gain free travel.

But, since you're involved with the SD world as well, I'm sure you know all that.

Vaiva · 04-05-2011, 22:53

Ok, guys, i allways thought my understanding in English is good, but now I start changing my opinion...
Could you please tell the simple requirements needed for a Servise Dogs in USA? Let's say if dog has to carry things in his bag, helping a person who finds it difficult to carry it himself? How do you train one? I understand a dog has to feel good with a bag on and has to be social. What else?
I am really interested in it.

draggar · 04-05-2011, 23:00

A service dog is a dog trained to perform duties outside of the real of what a dog would normally do to help a person with a disability.

My wife has problems walking so she uses Zorro for mobility assistance (as well as stability and item retrieval). I don't know if a pack dog (for the lack of a better term) would qualify (but I'm sure it won't be long before people do use them for that - for carrying medical equipment).

The training is specific towards what the dog is going to be used for. Mobility assistance mainly need to stay next to the handler and be able to support them.

yukidomari · 04-05-2011, 23:29

Vaiva - the 'requirements' in the USA are:

1) Person is disabled and the disability affects their everyday living so as to require help. Not all people who are 'disabled' are disabled to a degree which they qualify for a SD.

2) Dog can do at least 1 specific task. A "task" meaning it's specifically trained for.. not just to be there and comfort a human. So for different disabilities there are different tasks. If a person has balance issues, the dog can be task trained to pick up objects for the person, turn light switches, etc, or help to balance a human if it's the appropriate size, weight, and health. If a person has a psychological disability like say panic attacks perhaps the dog can be trained to lead the person away from situations when the person starts to have a break down, etc.

These are the only requirements there are, although to some it may seem ridiculously lax. There are no formal tests or certifications you need in the USA to have a dog be called a SD. And any facilities or business that claim to 'certify' a dog is a scam.

Although some users prefer to pass the PAT (public access) training test so they have confidence in their dogs' behavior. Many also like to pass the CGC (canine good citizen) examination. But neither are required at all.

A well behaved dog which is potty-trained will provide you with an SD that has access rights. An ill-behaved SD that disrupts business can be asked to leave.

In the US, a SD does not need to be vested nor carry any identification that it is a SD generally.

According to law, generally in public the only questions that a business or facility can ask about you or an SD is A) if it is a SD B) what kind of tasks is it trained for.

They cannot ask you about your disability nor do you have to tell them about your disability.

But because of these relatively lax standard, it is very easy to fake a SD unfortunately. And most people are not aware that there is a difference between different types of 'helping' dogs. Even doctors.

draggar · 04-05-2011, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

A well behaved dog which is potty-trained will provide you with an SD that has access rights. An ill-behaved SD that disrupts business can be asked to leave.

An establishment can also refuse access to a service dog if they feel there is a genuine and legitimate concern for the health and safety for the SD. While an amusement park cannot refuse entry for a SD and their handler, the attendant managing a roller coaster can refuse entry since it would not be safe for the SD. In situations like this, it is up to the handler to secure the SD (with a friend, etc..) before they can access the ride.

Quote:

But because of these relatively lax standard, it is very easy to fake a SD unfortunately. And most people are not aware that there is a difference between different types of 'helping' dogs. Even doctors.

It is easy to fake but it is illegal and can land you in jail in most states. Public education is the best tool in this. The mostly abused is "emotional support dogs" which are NOT service dogs (Psychiatric Support Animals are - but they do require documentation). Since all a ESD only needs to be a good pet (for emotional support) then the realm of their training is not outside the real of what a dog would naturally do (therefore it is not a service dog).

yukidomari · 04-05-2011, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by draggar

An establishment can also refuse access to a service dog if they feel there is a genuine and legitimate concern for the health and safety for the SD. While an amusement park cannot refuse entry for a SD and their handler, the attendant managing a roller coaster can refuse entry since it would not be safe for the SD. In situations like this, it is up to the handler to secure the SD (with a friend, etc..) before they can access the ride.

Right, and also if they think it would interfere with business operations - like you need to have surgery in a sterile environment.. you can't bring your dog. Or, you're going to the open-air butterfly park. Your SD may not be able to enter because it may negatively affect the butterflies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draggar

It is easy to fake but it is illegal and can land you in jail in most states.

That is what it is technically - but I have known 0 cases where a person has actually gone to jail for faking a SD. Do you?

04-05-2011, 11:38	#1
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	Therapy dogs also usually require insurance (or its highly recommended). Also, their training must be outside the realm of what a normal dog would do. For example, an emotional support animal (ESA) is not considered a service animal because what they're "trained" to do is basically be a good pet - which any dog will do (if treated well etc.), love their handler, etc.. But, there is also psychiatric (sp?) support animals which help with severe mental issues like post traumatic disorder and are considered service dogs (these are also the only ones that require documentation - usually a doctor's note / prescription). Therapy dogs are not service dogs because they mainly just need to be friendly but they do require a PAT (Public Access Test) certification (in a nutshell an advanced CGC). As Yuki mentioned, they can go where they are invited (hospitals, schools, etc.) Yes, 10 week old puppies cannot be service dogs but they can be in training (IMO extremely important to start as soon as you can - Luna's "training" started as soon as we got her but early on, until they can physically do the work, it is exposure, socialization, obedience, exposure, socialization, obedience, exposure, socialization, and obedience. When she is older (and after her elbows and hips are checked) she'll start with the actual support and mobility assistance training. Luna is doing extremely well with her training. She's a little stand-offish still but far better than we expected. She's getting the obedience down and her stamina! WOW! The only other dog that out-worked her was Kiri (but she's 4 now and has a well insulated coat). It was a hard week for all 3 of them and they all did well. (Yes, Zorro did well, too, but he's getting up there in years, he's 8 now so we probably have at least another 3-5 years of him now, most of that should be full time (he is the primary now). We started to do this with Pollux, his physical build would be awesome for it (he's big and strong) but he washed out because he was way to skittish (we may give his training another go in a few months). __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

04-05-2011, 22:53	#3
Vaiva ir Brukne Join Date: May 2006 Location: Vilnius Posts: 1,768	Ok, guys, i allways thought my understanding in English is good, but now I start changing my opinion... Could you please tell the simple requirements needed for a Servise Dogs in USA? Let's say if dog has to carry things in his bag, helping a person who finds it difficult to carry it himself? How do you train one? I understand a dog has to feel good with a bag on and has to be social. What else? I am really interested in it. __________________ Walkiria Girios dvasia

04-05-2011, 23:00	#4
draggar Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 370	A service dog is a dog trained to perform duties outside of the real of what a dog would normally do to help a person with a disability. My wife has problems walking so she uses Zorro for mobility assistance (as well as stability and item retrieval). I don't know if a pack dog (for the lack of a better term) would qualify (but I'm sure it won't be long before people do use them for that - for carrying medical equipment). The training is specific towards what the dog is going to be used for. Mobility assistance mainly need to stay next to the handler and be able to support them. __________________ Fred Lanting's Official Site Dog Actors

04-05-2011, 23:29	#5
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	Vaiva - the 'requirements' in the USA are: 1) Person is disabled and the disability affects their everyday living so as to require help. Not all people who are 'disabled' are disabled to a degree which they qualify for a SD. 2) Dog can do at least 1 specific task. A "task" meaning it's specifically trained for.. not just to be there and comfort a human. So for different disabilities there are different tasks. If a person has balance issues, the dog can be task trained to pick up objects for the person, turn light switches, etc, or help to balance a human if it's the appropriate size, weight, and health. If a person has a psychological disability like say panic attacks perhaps the dog can be trained to lead the person away from situations when the person starts to have a break down, etc. These are the only requirements there are, although to some it may seem ridiculously lax. There are no formal tests or certifications you need in the USA to have a dog be called a SD. And any facilities or business that claim to 'certify' a dog is a scam. Although some users prefer to pass the PAT (public access) training test so they have confidence in their dogs' behavior. Many also like to pass the CGC (canine good citizen) examination. But neither are required at all. A well behaved dog which is potty-trained will provide you with an SD that has access rights. An ill-behaved SD that disrupts business can be asked to leave. In the US, a SD does not need to be vested nor carry any identification that it is a SD generally. According to law, generally in public the only questions that a business or facility can ask about you or an SD is A) if it is a SD B) what kind of tasks is it trained for. They cannot ask you about your disability nor do you have to tell them about your disability. But because of these relatively lax standard, it is very easy to fake a SD unfortunately. And most people are not aware that there is a difference between different types of 'helping' dogs. Even doctors.