CzW needs and characteristics

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Mikael

And it might be true if they talk about obidance

I agree with you Mikael, but I just don't understand why there is always the comparison to GSDs? After all, how odd is it to say Miniature Pinschers are "less short" versions of Dachshunds!!! (they were bred from Dachshunds ages ago)

It is its own dog, no need to draw comparisons..

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

I agree with you Mikael, but I just don't understand why there is always the comparison to GSDs? After all, how odd is it to say Miniature Pinschers are "less short" versions of Dachshunds!!! (they were bred from Dachshunds ages ago)

It is its own dog, no need to draw comparisons..

Yes and I think in time I it will be just a Vlcak, but now if someone ask me "what kind of breed is that" I also will start to talk about GSD X Wolf / former czechoslovakian republic...

The breed is to smal and yong, but in time now when it is exported, I think it will start to get better on this part, but this far most FCI judges did not even see one To them and all oters that do not know the breed, it is a GSD / Wolfcross

Very best regards / Mikael

[enomis52]

Thanks everyone for the advice, and it has pointed me in the right direction. I don't feel like I'm wondering aimlessly now and thanks Mikael for the link! So much useful information on one website - I haven't come across another page that comes close to it

Hopefully I'll see them in my country soon. My impatience is killing me :P

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

I agree with you Mikael, but I just don't understand why there is always the comparison to GSDs? After all, how odd is it to say Miniature Pinschers are "less short" versions of Dachshunds!!! (they were bred from Dachshunds ages ago)

It is its own dog, no need to draw comparisons..

Well, the thing is, that when you tell people it is a working breed, they think it will be as "normal" as GSD... They say "ah, ok, I need it to guard my yard, bark at people" and so on And then you simply start explaining, taking a "normal" dog as GSD and saying "no, this dog should not live in a fenced yard like gsd, thay do not bark like gsd, they do not want to do anything to make you happy like gsd..."

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

they do not want to do anything to make you happy like gsd..."

Oh, they do.. They just prefer that you learn to be happy that they are happy .

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by saschia

Oh, they do.. They just prefer that you learn to be happy that they are happy .

Well, yes - this is more exact Very accurate in fact

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

...they do not want to do anything to make you happy like gsd..."

Once I talked 'privately" with a famous dog trainer, author of very good books about dog training, which some of you might have read /used. It was a private conversation so I don't think it'd be fair to provide his name. It's not really important because I've met several trainers who think like he does.

He admitted that my vlcak was the first of the breed he'd met that was not shy, was friendly and willing to work (BTW I don't mean that I think my dog is exceptional or particularly well trained , but rather that he'd met very few vlcaks )
But then he asked "Tell me, why didn't you get yourself a NICE dog?" At first I didn't understand - aren't CSVs really beautiful? But then he explained that by NICE he meant a dog that would look up to the owner and obey him blindly like a working GSD, the sort of "trainers' dream"

I've been thinking about this question for a few months now, and have several asnwers, eg.:
because 'partner-kind' of relationship with a dog is more important for me than her perfect obedience?
because I like challenges?
because I used to have a dog of the same breed before and missed the realtionship?
because life with a CSV is always interesting and never boring?
because of their warmheartedness and passion?
because CSVs keep our modesty at decent level?
because I'm a psychological masochist?
because of aesthetic impressions - watching my dog running, almost floating above the ground gives me almost sensuous pleasure?
because 'personality' of any CSV's is so unique? Once you meet a vlcak, play with him for a while, communicate... you cannot confuse him/her with any other vlcak?

Or maybe all of them together or some mix of them? What would be your answer? Why didn't you get yoursleves a really NICE dog?

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Rona

Once I talked 'privately" with a famous dog trainer, author of very good books about dog training, which some of you might have read /used. It was a private conversation so I don't think it'd be fair to provide his name. It's not really important because I've met several trainers who think like he does.

He admitted that my vlcak was the first of the breed he'd met that was not shy, was friendly and willing to work (BTW I don't mean that I think my dog is exceptional or particularly well trained , but rather that he'd met very few vlcaks )
But then he asked "Tell me, why didn't you get yourself a NICE dog?" At first I didn't understand - aren't CSVs really beautiful? But then he explained that by NICE he meant a dog that would look up to the owner and obey him blindly like a working GSD, the sort of "trainers' dream"

I've been thinking about this question for a few months now, and have several asnwers, eg.:
because 'partner-kind' of relationship with a dog is more important for me than her perfect obedience?
because I like challenges?
because I used to have a dog of the same breed before and missed the realtionship?
because life with a CSV is always interesting and never boring?
because of their warmheartedness and passion?
because CSVs keep our modesty at decent level?
because I'm a psychological masochist?
because of aesthetic impressions - watching my dog running, almost floating above the ground gives me almost sensuous pleasure?
because 'personality' of any CSV's is so unique? Once you meet a vlcak, play with him for a while, communicate... you cannot confuse him/her with any other vlcak?

Or maybe all of them together or some mix of them? What would be your answer? Why didn't you get yoursleves a really NICE dog?

hahahahahaaa
Yes, I can sign after every word of yours!
Had similar conversation with some experienced cynologists, judges Mentioned, that I am thinking about one more dog, small breed, maybe shiba inu. "WHY do you need such a CRAZY dog???" And the other judge says "She has a wolfdog..." Is it diagnosis or what?

And my answer to the last question is really this:
Well, my requirements for a dog are simple - dog has to be resistant to any weather conditions, no smell, no need to bath, to use cosmetics (for myself I use nearly none, so I do not want to use more for my dog ), healthy, high endurance, not too loud, self-confident, middle-sized. Kind of independent, a little chalenge. Good looking So I first was thinking about the dogs from 5th group - like malamuts, akitas, various laikas and my big secret love - shikoku, but finally I have wolfdog, because their attitude towards people - they love their people, thay want to be with them, you can let wolfdog off the leash with no doubts he will not loose you from his sight It is still a working breed, who likes to work, if the work is interesting enought

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Rona

because 'partner-kind' of relationship with a dog is more important for me than her perfect obedience?
because of their warmheartedness and passion?
because of aesthetic impressions - watching my dog running, almost floating above the ground gives me almost sensuous pleasure?

These are most important for me.

Originally Posted by Rona

because life with a CSV is always interesting and never boring?

This one might be true for many other breeds, even the "nice" ones... But it is true, nevertheless...

What I don;t like about the "nice" breeds is that they give me feeling that they do not obey because they chose it, but they just don't seem to be able to think up anything better. I have a feeling that those dogs, that are able to work independently and on their own, even if they come from the "nice" breed pool, are as individuals much more difficult to train. Maybe not as hard as wolfdogs (but there are also wolfdogs that have the obedient drive), but still much harder than the typical "nice" dog.

There was a time in my life that the reason Vaiva gave, about the resistance etc. was also very true, but now I think the partnership is the most important for me. My dog chooses to obey or disobey me, in similar way as I choose to obey or disobey the traffic rules. In giving orders, I am responsible that the orders are good ones. If I give stupid orders, would I myself obey them? I know I wouldn't - at least not always.

[yukidomari]

The other day I was at the dog-park and a lady asked me what kind of dog our CsV is, and what they were bred for?

I told her they were originally bred by the CS border patrol and she immediately said, "Those dogs are vicious".

Then she said, "Oh, but of course not YOUR dog.... he is nice.."

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

The other day I was at the dog-park and a lady asked me what kind of dog our CsV is, and what they were bred for?

I told her they were originally bred by the CS border patrol and she immediately said, "Those dogs are vicious".

Then she said, "Oh, but of course not YOUR dog.... he is nice.."

Well, I can understand her.. If she is from the former USSR... Czechoslovakia was also a communist country, so... Or survived nazis...
There is nothing glorious about the history of our breed. The people trying to escape former Czechoslovakia mostly weren't smuglers or criminals... I do not want to insult the creators of the breed, but at least in Lithuania there is nothing glorious about being a comunist army officer
Yesterday we were celebrating Lithuania's Independence Day (1918 year). When my grandpa (mother's father) was 16, in allready occupied Lithuania, some of his classmates on February 16th rised a Lithuanian flag in their class - all the classmates were takes to Siberia. My grandpa doesn't speak a lot about it, I just know, that on his eighteenth birthday he was too weak to stand up from his so called "bed" - and I am sure they were also protected by dogs. My fathers mother was one of the 9 children - only 3 of them left after the partisan war, and dogs were not on the side of partisans
Some time ago and old man in street said he knows similar dogs (I was with Brukne) - he was a 10 years old jewish boy, trying to "run away" (didn't ask from who, but we can all understand it), the dogs were told to catch him, but did not touch a child...
So her reaction is not strange at all...

[saschia]

Vaiva - yes, that's true, but that was not the breed, that were dogs, and the reason for the dogs to be like that were people. It's always the people in the end, whether the dog kills refugees, or bites a child on the patio.

I can understand no love for patrol dogs, or dog in general, if someone has bad experience.

But I really hate when people generalize to whole CSW population some random facts acquired from third-party experience on the first F generations.

And it is always breed character that is important for our relationship with that breed, not breed history. And even bad history can bring good character. I mean in wolfdogs we've got just what we like, although we might not like the first purpose.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by yukidomari

The other day I was at the dog-park and a lady asked me what kind of dog our CsV is, and what they were bred for?

I told her they were originally bred by the CS border patrol and she immediately said, "Those dogs are vicious".

Then she said, "Oh, but of course not YOUR dog.... he is nice.."

Funny; last year my husband's colleague from the Czech Rep. on seeing we have a vlcak commented: 'Oh, I see you have the unsuccessful result of the Czechoslovakian Army experiment!'
'Why unsuccessful?!' I protested.
'Well, they were designed to be blind "tracking/attacing machines" but in the end turned into loyal family dogs with their own brains'

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Rona

'Well, they were designed to be blind "tracking/attacing machines" but in the end turned into loyal family dogs with their own brains'

If that is how it is, I´m so so happy that the Czechoslovakian Army did fail

Best regards / Mikael