Breeding rules and methods

[Hanka]

Hi Massimo, I know, your question was not for me, but I must answer you a little your question:
" that is why breeders with females in CZ look for males outside CZ who are not obliged to follow breeding rules in CZ?? ""
Count how much litters is here and count how much breders used not czech males. I think, about 90% of fathers czech litters are czech males. We use foreigner males only sometimes and only some breeders. (Maybe if males are interest, good (in blood) for some female, we want save some "interest family",.....) It is not so often like you mean.
I do it sometimes too, why not. But for me is a pitty, if males from other countries have not czech bonitation, from judges from country of origin., or czech HD results......
A pitty, bu we can do nothing against it.
But it is not problem to use foreigner males, or yes?

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Hanka

But for me is a pitty, if males from other countries have not czech bonitation, from judges from country of origin., or czech HD results......
A pitty, bu we can do nothing against it.

Hanka, what is it? Sorry, but this is allready insultive. So other countries do not have profesional veterinarians to make a proper HD test??? Also the judges in other countries are totally stupid? Not speaking about bonitations?
First you want all the countries to breed according to Czech breeding plans. Then you say that even HD, made in other country than Czechia is NOT GOOD?

[Hanka]

Yes, I think, exist differents in countries in measuring of HD. And in some countries NOBODY measure X-ray photos, but doctor only look at photo and write result. It is bad, but true.
I can write it because I had seen it by my own eyes.
Don´t take it like isultation of somebody or some countries. I only write it is a pitty. Pitty for breed because we "lies to own pocket" when much of dogs have perfect HD "A" on paper, but reality is a little different....

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes, I think, exist differents in countries in measuring of HD. And in some countries NOBODY measure X-ray photos, but doctor only look at photo and write result. It is bad, but true.
I can write it because I had seen it by my own eyes.
Don´t take it like isultation of somebody or some countries. I only write it is a pitty. Pitty for breed because we "lies to own pocket" when much of dogs have perfect HD "A" on paper, but reality is a little different....

It might be a pitty for you, but insulting for people from other countries.
So maybe it is worth naming the countries, where you saw HD, done looking not to the hips, but to owner's pocket? Because this is still not fair. Also the show evaluations from some Slovak judges seem to be much more interesting for many people, than ones from Czech judges And we had the topic about bonitations - maybe no need to start them once more. Still if I had my dog bonitated by Oskar Dora I somehow do not feel I should go for a more "better" one in Czech Respublik.

[Hanka]

I wrote abot HD resuts and about bonitation, I did not write about some shows.
If you look at all countries, nobody does czech bonitation, because it is most difficult and not much dogs can pass it. In all countries you can see "bonitations" or maximally slovak bonitatations, because it is more easy.
But I will not be OT here. If you want, we can continue over emails.
I only reacted on Massimo question.

[jasmine]

Why do you think that no breeding rules in Hungary ???
All of my dogs have hungarian breeding licence, Hd results.

And Pavel : till czeh and slovakian breeders use my dogs for breeding I think I have no reason to be ashamed!


Edit

Massimo : let's enjoy the comedy!

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Hanka

I wrote abot HD resuts and about bonitation, I did not write about some shows.
If you look at all countries, nobody does czech bonitation, because it is most difficult and not much dogs can pass it. In all countries you can see "bonitations" or maximally slovak bonitatations, because it is more easy.
But I will not be OT here. If you want, we can continue over emails.
I only reacted on Massimo question.

Well, apart from my totally different opinion concerning Czech and Slovakian bonitations that we surely shall not discuss here, are the Slovakian HD-results from messurement, as well as the German ones (we even messure more points then you as far as I know).
And I am more concerned about the more actual health problems that have been discussed here in other discussions and that are not taken care of till now.
The Slovakian Club did help actively with the research poject, it was discussed on the Club meeting, a lot of members did give blood samples, several members of the Club head did actively help, one breeder with very old dogs does now take the work and brings them to the vet to send samples. Italians gave blood samples, Germans did, Swedish people will help, Dutch people do, Margo promised to take care, Edit asked me to take blood form all of her dogs the next time I will be in this region
The Czech Club member that was there got the papers but till now we got no reaction. That might be my fault cause I didn´t find time to send another mail and there was a language problem with English, but now this is a good oportunity, if the Czech Club is interested you can contact Sona or me or Mijke or Saschia etc. to send you the papers and explanations.

Ina

[Hanka]

Hi Ina, and what you sent there and you have not answer? Write me it, I ask what hapenned when you have not answer or I can help you too.
Yes, I read your topic from yesterdsay, you wait some translation from Sonja. And you sent something similar to czech club too? To what person? Let me know and I will "put" it here.
You can in email.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Hanka

In all countries you can see "bonitations" or maximally slovak bonitatations, because it is more easy.

Hi Hanka,

why is it easier?
This dog ( and many more...) www.wolfdog.org/deu/dbase/d9548.html got a P1 in a Czech bonitation.
This wouldn't most likely have happened in Slovakia, because of his index of height.
So isn't it not just the other way round?

Regards,
Michael

[jasmine]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Hi Hanka,

why is it easier?
This dog ( and many more...) www.wolfdog.org/deu/dbase/d9548.html got a P1 in a Czech bonitation.
This wouldn't most likely have happened in Slovakia, because of his index of height.
So isn't it not just the other way round?

Regards,
Michael

ohh Michael ,

The very strict czeh bonitacio, extra strict Hd examination, super working dogs, super od Uhoste, super Hanka
Typical mystification of Hanka. And for her doesn't matter that many of us could write many many counter-example.
And of course she took part in this conversation, please don't forget she also has 4 litters for sale

I don't think that Sonja or Oscar would give the good bonitacion marks just for fun!


Edit

[jefta]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Hi Hanka,

why is it easier?
This dog ( and many more...) www.wolfdog.org/deu/dbase/d9548.html got a P1 in a Czech bonitation.
This wouldn't most likely have happened in Slovakia, because of his index of height.
So isn't it not just the other way round?

Regards,
Michael

http://www.wolfdog.org/drupal/de/gallery/pic/98248/
is it short legged and so long dog

but I hope that charakter test is judged more severely than in SK

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes, I think, exist differents in countries in measuring of HD. And in some countries NOBODY measure X-ray photos, but doctor only look at photo and write result. It is bad, but true.

I can only write about my experience and your statement is highly invalid. In the vet clinic were most Krakow CSVs are tested for HD and ED six X-ray pictures are made on the most modern US equipment and each dog gets a CD with the photos and a special programme by which the angles are precisely measured. The angles are tested by regular method AND additionaly a Pen Hip! Before the test the vet makes sure the dog is at least 15 months old (not even a day less!) and takes the pedigree, so the owner cannot "escape" without the result put on it. Dr Orzeł, (a surgeon!) measures the angles in the presence of the owner and another vet and gives initiary results. Then the results and the pedigree are sent to the vet who has the right to put it in the dog's pedigree! In most cases it's dr Simebieda, but not only. If the owner wishes the results can be sent to another wet with authority to put them onto the pedigree. There was not even one case of different results by Dr Orzeł and another vet!

I also heard many stories of unreliabilty of Czech dogs HD results, but I'm far from blaming all Czech owners/breeders/vets of cheating or lack of competence.
Besides, the Czech Republic is not the center of Universe and as far as I know, CSVs herd books are in Slovakian hands

BTW Have you ever heard about the notion of TRUST? If all people breeding CSV would have your imperialistic approach we could forget about any international cooperation.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Rona

In the vet clinic were most Krakow CSVs are tested for HD and ED six X-ray pictures are made on the most modern US equipment and each dog gets a CD with the photos and a special programme by which the angles are precisely measured. eeding CSV would have your imperialistic approach we could forget about an

we have this same. A littl3e strange when ours GSD has in LT HD B or HD C and go to Germany to SV vet and got a HD A. I think Hanka You have only megalomania about alls who have in CZ- betters dogs, betters HD betters bonitation. You realy think all others country and people arre stupid and dark. sorry I moore believe in others country work not in CZ. Why- when down pink glases maybe and You see this.