Welcoming a new Vlcak into the United States!

hanninadina · 08-05-2010, 17:37

Lupi did you ever saw a bonitation? I am sorry, you even did not write which csw do you have in "about me". But you write that you are a beginner. And please if you have many years experience and if you have been in all countries for summercamps, shows and bonitations, than you can are invitedt to write like you have knowledge. But you even do not know the dogs you are writing about.

I know nothing about your knowledge about dogs or wolfdogs. I know only that you are reading, writing and talking a lot about things you are a beginner in! So keep a bit shy, it would be better.

I have 4 wolfdogs. I invite you to have a look on my homepage.

Christian

PS: Dogs must not pass exams so that you can see if they are able to work!

Rona · 08-05-2010, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Dogs must not pass exams so that you can see if they are able to work!

Must not???? You mean they're not allowed to? By whom?!

Gypsy Wolf · 08-05-2010, 20:17

Lupis, as for my girlfriend's choice of Crying Wolf, that was HER decision, not mine. I introduced her to the breed, she did some research - including looking at the bonitation of the dam, and decided she liked the sire so much, she was willing to risk sharpness. She is also a long-time working-line Malinois person, so sharpness is something she LIKES. A little "skitziness" or "nervy" behavior is common in Malinois and not something that bothers her.
She wanted a vlcak that would be flashy in competitive obedience and liked to bite. Edgy behavior was not a worry for her. In fact, she sort of feels that such behavior often goes hand in hand with the ultra-sensitivity and reactiveness she likes to see in a flashy dog.
I fully trust her ability to work with just about any temperament, and of course the final decision is hers.
Personally, I much prefer going to the breeder's home and seeing parents for myself. Though I did trust a good friend to select an import GSD for me, sight-unseen. My girlfriend was comfortable with Edit sending her the puppy sight-unseen. Again, her call.
So we'll see how it goes. So far the puppy has greatly surprised her with his resilience to all the stress he's gone through during a serious period in development.
And really, I know a LOT of Malinois breeders - show and working lines. I don't know ANY that have had a "perfect record" when it comes to temperament. There are often fruitloops produced in the breed, regardless of how careful you are. Vlcaks are similar in many ways to Malinois. With Edit's number of litters produced in her many years, no doubt a few fruitloops crop up from time to time. You can't help it breeding the kind of temperament the breed has.
I would bet if you bred a few litters you would see that for yourself. It happens.
So don't get a puppy from Crying Wolf - your choice. Just as it was my friend's choice to do so. I respect your opinion - you have said your piece. Now I would appreciate your respect as well - criticizing a newbie is not really such a good way to welcome them into the breed. Educating them is.

hanninadina · 09-05-2010, 11:30

Rona, dogs are different like we people. I like dogs who are able to work but I do not go in dog clubs or places and train them there. It is enough for me to work by myself with them and sometimes a few times a year I go and it is enough for me. I am not a friend of this. I am a friend of taking part in events like the Pro Evolution contest where man and his best friend the wolfdog work!

The society changes in europe (the world) and we do not need dogs who will be trained for biting. A few weeks ago I got to know people who have to Malinois and they are training them, they are taking part at the german champion ship next weekend. But they are not able to lead their dog without this horrible pinch/prong collar.

I know lots of dogs, who are "good" on their training ground in their club but outside it is a complete different world, they do not listen, they behave not normal. Sorry, for me it is important that the dogs are outside in the world good and not on training ground.

I do not like dogs which I pass in summercamp and they try to snap at me. Dogs which are trained. Even from people who are writing here.

There are dogs which it is better not to train. But people train them and then the result is that they try to snap everyone who is passing them.

To see if a dog has working abilities you do not need to pass examines.

It is my opinion. I respect yours.

Christian

Rona · 09-05-2010, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

Rona, dogs are different like we people. I like dogs who are able to work but I do not go in dog clubs or places and train them there. (...)

I fully understand you. We too, train Lorka only for fun and don't feel like taking any exams. She passes them every day in the streets, buses, at our friends homes, etc. and we find it sufficient.

But you wrote that dogs "must not" take exams! Must not in English means that they are forbidden to take them, so you statement made no sense to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

The society changes in europe (the world) and we do not need dogs who will be trained for biting. A few weeks ago I got to know people who have to Malinois and they are training them, they are taking part at the german champion ship next weekend. But they are not able to lead their dog without this horrible pinch/prong collar.

I know lots of dogs, who are "good" on their training ground in their club but outside it is a complete different world, they do not listen, they behave not normal. Sorry, for me it is important that the dogs are outside in the world good and not on training ground.

I fully agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

I do not like dogs which I pass in summercamp and they try to snap at me. Dogs which are trained. Even from people who are writing here.
There are dogs which it is better not to train. But people train them and then the result is that they try to snap everyone who is passing them.

The fact that somebody is training a dog doesn't necessarily mean the dog has been already trained succesffuly

What's more, vlcaks are not machines, they are able to "think" independently and let me repeat again: I belive the breed has been designed to teach their owners modesty and make them feel humble from time to time.

Personally, I love this particular trait of them! But since no owner knows what his dog might 'do' one day

I would suggest less critical approach to other vlcaks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanninadina

To see if a dog has working abilities you do not need to pass examines.

Well, yes and no. It's true one does not need to pass exams to see if the dog has an aptitude for work, but if their breeder claims on-line that he/she is breeding 'working lines' he/she should be able to prove it. Such breeders should select owners who would be willing to train their pups, pass exams with them and only then will the breeder turn credible

There are so many 'virtual working dogs', 'virtual big dogs', virtual beautifully moving dogs', 'virtual good characters', etc. etc.! If these statements are not confirmed officially by bonitation codes, passed exams and show results they may just be fancies of "proud parents" or smart PR of business-oriented breeders

jasmine · 10-05-2010, 09:20

I'm so happy that after the trouble , little Pollux arrived his new home and his is fine!

About Lupis : as he never sign his comments and always just attacing everybody , of course not his oppinion is authoritative. Especial to see the fact that he has never seen the dogs he is talking about!No worth to deal with his comments more!

Edit

yukidomari · 10-05-2010, 15:44

What's done is done; Luna's mom's friend has a new puppy, so let's be happy for her. Whether or not it pans out as a working dog or just a very much loved pet doesn't matter to the dog.

Let's be happy for her friend. Maybe her puppy will be the rare dog out of lines not known for working.

Arguments based on if a person has seen, or not seen, specific kennels' dogs are pretty much irrelevant; if the kennel has a record of producing working dogs, there is no need to defend itself.. the evidence speaks for itself.

Mikael · 10-05-2010, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

What's done is done; Luna's mom's friend has a new puppy, so let's be happy for her. Whether or not it pans out as a working dog or just a very much loved pet doesn't matter to the dog.

Let's be happy for her friend. Maybe her puppy will be the rare dog out of lines not known for working.

Arguments based on if a person has seen, or not seen, specific kennels' dogs are pretty much irrelevant; if the kennel has a record of producing working dogs, there is no need to defend itself.. the evidence speaks for itself.

Agree, and I think this puppy will be a working dog

even if not from a working dog kennel... But if not, I hope the pressure on him is not to high, if he just likes to be a pet Vlcak

I think one is not to say, this puppy will be the first IPO champion of the Vlcak breed in the USA, even before he is born

And just for the record this was Lunas mom´s friends Mrs X choice of kennel, I did newer hear Edit say or write she breed working dogs, I only did say that if I’m looking for a working dog I do not look for a dog from her kennel...

And yes...

Congratulation to your new puppy Mrs X and I’m happy that he is good after the hard trip

Best regards / Mikael

Gypsy Wolf · 10-05-2010, 22:25

Thank you all for your support. I am happy to say the puppy is getting better every day. I visited them yesterday so Luna and Pollux (the only 2 vlcaks in the Deep South!) could play. It's interesting that vlcaks really do recognize their own breed and behave differently.
Poor Pollux had gotten terrible diarrhea from the stress and probably whatever crap he had been fed in transit and it took him a couple of days for his poor tummy to settle down and for his true personality to start coming through. He is snuggling, playing with toys, retrieving and getting used to the crate.
He even got to sleep in bed with his new mom.
So, yes, he is going to be a loved pup and hopefully a super working one...

Gypsy Wolf · 11-05-2010, 20:24

And last night Pollux came out to our dog club for some socialization. Of course everyone loved him. He is quiet and watches everything intently.
He actually likes being held like a baby and snuggling - so cute...

hanninadina · 11-05-2010, 21:29

So watch out, that you do not confirm shyness. If it is only quietness, ok. It is a pup and must have a look at the new situation. But it would be better if he walks around in curiousity. But I guess you know that.

08-05-2010, 17:37	#1
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	Lupi did you ever saw a bonitation? I am sorry, you even did not write which csw do you have in "about me". But you write that you are a beginner. And please if you have many years experience and if you have been in all countries for summercamps, shows and bonitations, than you can are invitedt to write like you have knowledge. But you even do not know the dogs you are writing about. I know nothing about your knowledge about dogs or wolfdogs. I know only that you are reading, writing and talking a lot about things you are a beginner in! So keep a bit shy, it would be better. I have 4 wolfdogs. I invite you to have a look on my homepage. Christian PS: Dogs must not pass exams so that you can see if they are able to work!

08-05-2010, 20:17	#3
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	Lupis, as for my girlfriend's choice of Crying Wolf, that was HER decision, not mine. I introduced her to the breed, she did some research - including looking at the bonitation of the dam, and decided she liked the sire so much, she was willing to risk sharpness. She is also a long-time working-line Malinois person, so sharpness is something she LIKES. A little "skitziness" or "nervy" behavior is common in Malinois and not something that bothers her. She wanted a vlcak that would be flashy in competitive obedience and liked to bite. Edgy behavior was not a worry for her. In fact, she sort of feels that such behavior often goes hand in hand with the ultra-sensitivity and reactiveness she likes to see in a flashy dog. I fully trust her ability to work with just about any temperament, and of course the final decision is hers. Personally, I much prefer going to the breeder's home and seeing parents for myself. Though I did trust a good friend to select an import GSD for me, sight-unseen. My girlfriend was comfortable with Edit sending her the puppy sight-unseen. Again, her call. So we'll see how it goes. So far the puppy has greatly surprised her with his resilience to all the stress he's gone through during a serious period in development. And really, I know a LOT of Malinois breeders - show and working lines. I don't know ANY that have had a "perfect record" when it comes to temperament. There are often fruitloops produced in the breed, regardless of how careful you are. Vlcaks are similar in many ways to Malinois. With Edit's number of litters produced in her many years, no doubt a few fruitloops crop up from time to time. You can't help it breeding the kind of temperament the breed has. I would bet if you bred a few litters you would see that for yourself. It happens. So don't get a puppy from Crying Wolf - your choice. Just as it was my friend's choice to do so. I respect your opinion - you have said your piece. Now I would appreciate your respect as well - criticizing a newbie is not really such a good way to welcome them into the breed. Educating them is.

09-05-2010, 11:30	#4
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	Rona, dogs are different like we people. I like dogs who are able to work but I do not go in dog clubs or places and train them there. It is enough for me to work by myself with them and sometimes a few times a year I go and it is enough for me. I am not a friend of this. I am a friend of taking part in events like the Pro Evolution contest where man and his best friend the wolfdog work! The society changes in europe (the world) and we do not need dogs who will be trained for biting. A few weeks ago I got to know people who have to Malinois and they are training them, they are taking part at the german champion ship next weekend. But they are not able to lead their dog without this horrible pinch/prong collar. I know lots of dogs, who are "good" on their training ground in their club but outside it is a complete different world, they do not listen, they behave not normal. Sorry, for me it is important that the dogs are outside in the world good and not on training ground. I do not like dogs which I pass in summercamp and they try to snap at me. Dogs which are trained. Even from people who are writing here. There are dogs which it is better not to train. But people train them and then the result is that they try to snap everyone who is passing them. To see if a dog has working abilities you do not need to pass examines. It is my opinion. I respect yours. Christian

10-05-2010, 09:20	#6
jasmine Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 188	I'm so happy that after the trouble , little Pollux arrived his new home and his is fine! About Lupis : as he never sign his comments and always just attacing everybody , of course not his oppinion is authoritative. Especial to see the fact that he has never seen the dogs he is talking about!No worth to deal with his comments more! Edit

10-05-2010, 15:44	#7
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	What's done is done; Luna's mom's friend has a new puppy, so let's be happy for her. Whether or not it pans out as a working dog or just a very much loved pet doesn't matter to the dog. Let's be happy for her friend. Maybe her puppy will be the rare dog out of lines not known for working. Arguments based on if a person has seen, or not seen, specific kennels' dogs are pretty much irrelevant; if the kennel has a record of producing working dogs, there is no need to defend itself.. the evidence speaks for itself.

10-05-2010, 22:25	#9
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	Thank you all for your support. I am happy to say the puppy is getting better every day. I visited them yesterday so Luna and Pollux (the only 2 vlcaks in the Deep South!) could play. It's interesting that vlcaks really do recognize their own breed and behave differently. Poor Pollux had gotten terrible diarrhea from the stress and probably whatever crap he had been fed in transit and it took him a couple of days for his poor tummy to settle down and for his true personality to start coming through. He is snuggling, playing with toys, retrieving and getting used to the crate. He even got to sleep in bed with his new mom. So, yes, he is going to be a loved pup and hopefully a super working one...

11-05-2010, 20:24	#10
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	And last night Pollux came out to our dog club for some socialization. Of course everyone loved him. He is quiet and watches everything intently. He actually likes being held like a baby and snuggling - so cute...

11-05-2010, 21:29	#11
hanninadina Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,466	So watch out, that you do not confirm shyness. If it is only quietness, ok. It is a pup and must have a look at the new situation. But it would be better if he walks around in curiousity. But I guess you know that.