Forming a breed club in the US

Gypsy Wolf · 12-04-2010, 23:34

Obviously, the selection/appointment/approval of a Breed Warden would have to be reviewed extensively by whatever Board or Committee is in charge of it. I think, at least here in the United States, we cannot expect potential Breed Wardens to have extensive experience in the breed as we don't have that many here in the first place. That doesn't mean they are not able to be a good Breed Warden.
Take, for instance, myself - Luna is my first CsV. I, however, have a Bachelor's Degree majoring in Animal Behavior and have been training, competing, titling and working dogs for over 17 years - dogs of every breed and I have training in almost EVERY dog sport from skijoring (a massive failure trying to use my Malinois - they tend to run in circles and I kept getting wrapped around trees) to waterwork, frisbee, agility, herding, schH... you name it, I have tried it. I have titled dogs in Obedience, Rally and SchH, as well as having great success in the conformation ring with trips to Eukanuba (invitation only) and Westminster and even got invited to Crufts!
I have an excellent eye for structure (I have been invited to evaluate many litters of multiple breeds to select conformation as well as working picks), I have bred only 2 litters, but have had excellent success with them, I was a Veterinary Technician (veterinary nurse) for years, I am a DVG-Certified Training Director, and used to run the obedience program at a local animal shelter for years - and I have numerous other achievements that won't fit in just one post. I am not bragging here, but I feel pretty confident that I would be able to objectively look at the temperament of a dog, as well as the physical structure, and determine what the correct CsV is per the Standard. Other dog folks have asked me to evaluate their dogs (breeds from Dalmatians to Goldens to GSD, Nefoundlands, Finnish Spitz, Collies and others) and so far, I have been on the money. Personally, even though I always review each breed's Standard before evaluating, there is also a certain "esthetic" one with a good "eye" can pick out immediately. A harmony. Not to mention how easy it is to "test" a dog and see what kind of character it possesses.
Of course, I have been studying dogs for years, go to several educational seminars for both structure and behavior throughout a given year, etc.
Just because I have limited exposure to the CsV as a breed, does not mean I wouldn't have the skills to determine what should be bred and what shouldn't. That is, after all, what a breeder does, and who better to ask to be a steward of the breed?

lupis · 08-05-2010, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

Take, for instance, myself - Luna is my first CsV. I, however, have a Bachelor's Degree majoring in Animal Behavior and have been training, competing, titling and working dogs for over 17 years - dogs of every breed and I have training in almost EVERY dog sport from skijoring (a massive failure trying to use my Malinois - they tend to run in circles and I kept getting wrapped around trees) to waterwork, frisbee, agility, herding, schH... you name it, I have tried it. I have titled dogs in Obedience, Rally and SchH, as well as having great success in the conformation ring with trips to Eukanuba (invitation only) and Westminster and even got invited to Crufts!

Not words are important but what you do. I also beginner as owner but i read forum for years. Maybe you have experiences in other breed but you select wolfdogs like beginner. You write "work" "working" and what... you buy antiworking dog. you know to select good puppy you have to check puppies, parents, see character, speak with owners. for have good dog for work is to read and choose, And not to buy first offered puppy.

Gypsy Wolf · 24-05-2010, 21:27

Just because you have been on a forum for years does not make you an expert or more experienced than I am. Yes, I am a beginner when it comes to actually LIVING with a vlcak - since there are only a handful here in the country, there is little chance I would have to spend time with one casually.
And I did not buy the first pup that came along... not that I have to defend myself against the accusatory tone of your posts, but I have been in contact with several kennels throughout Europe as well as one here in the U.S. for the last year or so, quietly researching what I like/did not like, etc.
Just because I am not blabbing all over the forum doesn't mean I am not doing my homework. You seem to be a lot of talk and I see no action.
I am more than happy with my choice when it comes to working ability. Perhaps your idea of working is quite different than mine. For me, I want a dog who is "game" to try anything, stable and responsive in public, likes bitework, is intelligent and flashy in obedience, committed to the Track, has excellent, sound conformtaion and has decent prey drive. I don't need a vlcak that is such a drivey dog that I can't live with it. I need a dog who I can snuggle with, too, and can live in harmony with my other pets (though the cats are not thrilled with her)...
Luna, so far, has fulfilled these requirements, and we hope to have a successful adventure with her. And even if she isn't the "ultimate" working dog, I am quite satisfied with her.
Put your money where your mouth is - how many dogs have you titled?

yukidomari · 15-01-2011, 19:52

I have heard through the grapevine that when the AKC chooses to recognize a breed (move it from FSS to Misc.) the official American breed club it selects is not allowed to make rules regarding which dogs be registered - the AKC will always register any dog with correct papers. This also means that the parent club cannot stipulate what health tests must be done either. This is why every single breed club has a Code of Ethics that merely 'suggest' which tests be done, but can NEVER use the lack of said testing as a condition of registration.

The AKC has been known to pass over parent clubs with strict mandatory rules (see Leonberger, Cav King Charles Spaniel) and pick some fraction club that doesn't, as the Nationally recognized club. Once the AKC recognizes a national club, it stops accepting pedigrees/registrations from other clubs. So it leaves all the other clubs with more stringent rules between the choice to forever remain unrecognized and unable to have pedigrees, or to join up with a club with lax rules.

I had thought for a long time that such rules regarding health testing were the responsibility of the breed club, and that the AKC was merely just the record holder/guarantor. So many times you hear the argument "it's not the AKC, it's the national breed club's responsibility to enforce Code of Ethics"...

It's increasingly clear that this is not so, that the AKC personally picks and chooses breed clubs that suit its agenda, and the AKC's agenda is clearly only for growing numbers and to build popularity, even at the cost of health.

For these reasons and more I am now against AKC recognition of this
breed and will not personally be registering all and any future CsVs I will be importing with the FSS.

Mikael · 15-01-2011, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by yukidomari

I had thought for a long time that such rules regarding health testing were the For these reasons and more I am now against AKC recognition of this
breed and will not personally be registering all and any future CsVs I will be importing with the FSS.

OK, will you keep them registered in Europe under the FCI ???

Best regards / Mikael

yukidomari · 15-01-2011, 20:37

Mikael - I PM'd you.

Gypsy Wolf · 16-01-2011, 03:22

Though there are a lot of things I DON'T like about AKC, it still is the "more recognized" registrar here in the U.S.
As AKC is just a registry, it CANNOT impose such rulings as health requirements - though why you would blame the AKC for that is beyond me... If you want to "blame" anyone - it is the parent club that has control over the breed, not the AKC - they only approve/disapprove changes to by-laws and standards. As far as health test requirements, personally I think such things should be done by a responsible breeder - and if the person is not a responsible breeder, only idiots would buy from them anyway...
Our breed club needs to incorporate and have approved by-laws and then AKC will incorporate said "parent club" - so it really boils down to whoever gets their butt in gear to develop a functioning breed club first....
Personally, I feel that affiliating with the AKC has some advantages for a burgeoning breed - I dual-register my dogs with AKC and UKC (who I prefer as a regisry, actually) and it opens up more venues in which to compete, as well.

15-01-2011, 19:52	#4
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	I have heard through the grapevine that when the AKC chooses to recognize a breed (move it from FSS to Misc.) the official American breed club it selects is not allowed to make rules regarding which dogs be registered - the AKC will always register any dog with correct papers. This also means that the parent club cannot stipulate what health tests must be done either. This is why every single breed club has a Code of Ethics that merely 'suggest' which tests be done, but can NEVER use the lack of said testing as a condition of registration. The AKC has been known to pass over parent clubs with strict mandatory rules (see Leonberger, Cav King Charles Spaniel) and pick some fraction club that doesn't, as the Nationally recognized club. Once the AKC recognizes a national club, it stops accepting pedigrees/registrations from other clubs. So it leaves all the other clubs with more stringent rules between the choice to forever remain unrecognized and unable to have pedigrees, or to join up with a club with lax rules. I had thought for a long time that such rules regarding health testing were the responsibility of the breed club, and that the AKC was merely just the record holder/guarantor. So many times you hear the argument "it's not the AKC, it's the national breed club's responsibility to enforce Code of Ethics"... It's increasingly clear that this is not so, that the AKC personally picks and chooses breed clubs that suit its agenda, and the AKC's agenda is clearly only for growing numbers and to build popularity, even at the cost of health. For these reasons and more I am now against AKC recognition of this breed and will not personally be registering all and any future CsVs I will be importing with the FSS. Last edited by yukidomari; 15-01-2011 at 20:19.

12-04-2010, 23:34	#1
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	Obviously, the selection/appointment/approval of a Breed Warden would have to be reviewed extensively by whatever Board or Committee is in charge of it. I think, at least here in the United States, we cannot expect potential Breed Wardens to have extensive experience in the breed as we don't have that many here in the first place. That doesn't mean they are not able to be a good Breed Warden. Take, for instance, myself - Luna is my first CsV. I, however, have a Bachelor's Degree majoring in Animal Behavior and have been training, competing, titling and working dogs for over 17 years - dogs of every breed and I have training in almost EVERY dog sport from skijoring (a massive failure trying to use my Malinois - they tend to run in circles and I kept getting wrapped around trees) to waterwork, frisbee, agility, herding, schH... you name it, I have tried it. I have titled dogs in Obedience, Rally and SchH, as well as having great success in the conformation ring with trips to Eukanuba (invitation only) and Westminster and even got invited to Crufts! I have an excellent eye for structure (I have been invited to evaluate many litters of multiple breeds to select conformation as well as working picks), I have bred only 2 litters, but have had excellent success with them, I was a Veterinary Technician (veterinary nurse) for years, I am a DVG-Certified Training Director, and used to run the obedience program at a local animal shelter for years - and I have numerous other achievements that won't fit in just one post. I am not bragging here, but I feel pretty confident that I would be able to objectively look at the temperament of a dog, as well as the physical structure, and determine what the correct CsV is per the Standard. Other dog folks have asked me to evaluate their dogs (breeds from Dalmatians to Goldens to GSD, Nefoundlands, Finnish Spitz, Collies and others) and so far, I have been on the money. Personally, even though I always review each breed's Standard before evaluating, there is also a certain "esthetic" one with a good "eye" can pick out immediately. A harmony. Not to mention how easy it is to "test" a dog and see what kind of character it possesses. Of course, I have been studying dogs for years, go to several educational seminars for both structure and behavior throughout a given year, etc. Just because I have limited exposure to the CsV as a breed, does not mean I wouldn't have the skills to determine what should be bred and what shouldn't. That is, after all, what a breeder does, and who better to ask to be a steward of the breed?

24-05-2010, 21:27	#3
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	Just because you have been on a forum for years does not make you an expert or more experienced than I am. Yes, I am a beginner when it comes to actually LIVING with a vlcak - since there are only a handful here in the country, there is little chance I would have to spend time with one casually. And I did not buy the first pup that came along... not that I have to defend myself against the accusatory tone of your posts, but I have been in contact with several kennels throughout Europe as well as one here in the U.S. for the last year or so, quietly researching what I like/did not like, etc. Just because I am not blabbing all over the forum doesn't mean I am not doing my homework. You seem to be a lot of talk and I see no action. I am more than happy with my choice when it comes to working ability. Perhaps your idea of working is quite different than mine. For me, I want a dog who is "game" to try anything, stable and responsive in public, likes bitework, is intelligent and flashy in obedience, committed to the Track, has excellent, sound conformtaion and has decent prey drive. I don't need a vlcak that is such a drivey dog that I can't live with it. I need a dog who I can snuggle with, too, and can live in harmony with my other pets (though the cats are not thrilled with her)... Luna, so far, has fulfilled these requirements, and we hope to have a successful adventure with her. And even if she isn't the "ultimate" working dog, I am quite satisfied with her. Put your money where your mouth is - how many dogs have you titled?

15-01-2011, 20:37	#6
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	Mikael - I PM'd you.

16-01-2011, 03:22	#7
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	Though there are a lot of things I DON'T like about AKC, it still is the "more recognized" registrar here in the U.S. As AKC is just a registry, it CANNOT impose such rulings as health requirements - though why you would blame the AKC for that is beyond me... If you want to "blame" anyone - it is the parent club that has control over the breed, not the AKC - they only approve/disapprove changes to by-laws and standards. As far as health test requirements, personally I think such things should be done by a responsible breeder - and if the person is not a responsible breeder, only idiots would buy from them anyway... Our breed club needs to incorporate and have approved by-laws and then AKC will incorporate said "parent club" - so it really boils down to whoever gets their butt in gear to develop a functioning breed club first.... Personally, I feel that affiliating with the AKC has some advantages for a burgeoning breed - I dual-register my dogs with AKC and UKC (who I prefer as a regisry, actually) and it opens up more venues in which to compete, as well.