What is this?

Originally Posted by solowolf

hi, i have mentioned this subject lots of times and it is ignored but now that you mention it Mikael as i have often said there is a growing difference in the appearence of the CWS from different countries and its very clear, the type is not being mentained and is slipping away by the day, the photos of the wolfdog at start of this post is good example, so is this a registered CWS? if so then WHO ADDED THE NEW WOLF BLOOD LINE AT LEAST TWO GENERATIONS AGO AND DID NOT SAY........ like most of you have commented it is a beautiful animal of that there is no doubt, i have owned CWS for over 10yrs but i have owned other wolfdogs and wolves for many more years, as you all know i did use male CWS on wolves over the years and i do have some very beautiful animals, but i have never had one nice remark made about mine only all the s..t from people on wolfdog.org for crossing cws with wolf, big difference is I DONT REGISTER THEM AS CWS,,,, why would any one who can breed such beautiful animals want to hide them behind the name of another breed??? if you look on my web site at this photo http://ukwolfdogs.com/kizzy_pups_18....ta1_type=large it is a third generation from wolf and cws cross, seems someone in Europe isnt happy with the way there cws look. as for why do pups from same litters sometimes look so different,this is not uncommon in dog breeding with new breeds but as you state as time goes by and the generations grow the type will become steady, if you add a wolf to the lines and breed forward with just cws then in 3 generations the type will be as normal again with the only trace of the wolf will be on paper, In France wolf has been added to both CWS and Saarloos but as normal it is ignored, you seem to be noticing changes Mikael maybe you should look at lots more pics on wolfdog.org and also remember there are now lots of litters bred that dont even reach this data base, and one last thing dont forget there are coydogs in Europe...... regards pacino

Just from a breeding standpoint in general (not touching the addition of wolves in breeding programs with a 12 ft pole!) it is in absolutely no way necessary to "have to" add wolves into the breed to maintain or work towards a standard. It has everything to do with different breeders having different aesthetic rather than losing wolf blood. Look at EVERY other dog breed in the world and you'll find variation. The best example is the GSD, which the CSV was even bred from. Look at how drastic the differences are between dogs of different countries, and then within those countries, the differences between working and show lines. They don't even look like the same breed!

That's also only considering people that are working to better a breed by working towards a standard. What about the people that just don't care about anything but selling puppies? I'm a groomer and work with dogs and see on average 15-20 different dogs a day, usually similar breeds. I can have 5 dogs, all "bichons" according to their owners, and none of them will look anything alike!

The only way to really unify the standard of a breed in my opinion is to make the standard very specific, so it's not open to interpretation. Unfortunately, this often times is the cause of breeds being taken to the extreme because people breed for really inane things in the standard. I'm personally ok with a little breed variation based on taste if it means the standard is open enough to allow for a breeder's specific vision of the perfect CSV.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Vicky

Just from a breeding standpoint in general (not touching the addition of wolves in breeding programs with a 12 ft pole!) it is in absolutely no way necessary to "have to" add wolves into the breed to maintain or work towards a standard. It has everything to do with different breeders having different aesthetic rather than losing wolf blood. Look at EVERY other dog breed in the world and you'll find variation. The best example is the GSD, which the CSV was even bred from. Look at how drastic the differences are between dogs of different countries, and then within those countries, the differences between working and show lines. They don't even look like the same breed!

That's also only considering people that are working to better a breed by working towards a standard. What about the people that just don't care about anything but selling puppies? I'm a groomer and work with dogs and see on average 15-20 different dogs a day, usually similar breeds. I can have 5 dogs, all "bichons" according to their owners, and none of them will look anything alike!

The only way to really unify the standard of a breed in my opinion is to make the standard very specific, so it's not open to interpretation. Unfortunately, this often times is the cause of breeds being taken to the extreme because people breed for really inane things in the standard. I'm personally ok with a little breed variation based on taste if it means the standard is open enough to allow for a breeder's specific vision of the perfect CSV.

hi, yes i agree you dont need wolf in the czech anymore, and variations to certain degree must be excepted in every breed, but the degree in variation is now getting bit rediculous and on numerous occasions i have visited wolfdog data base looking for new lines to buy or for stud dogs to use and i always get new surprise ever time, i am for selective breeding and useing the best i can get, if i dont get then i dont breed, and i have bred in the past with other breeds and have used the best and it didnt work, so its not all pick the best and it great, dog breeding to me is like playing russian roullette, you can look at pedigree see dog is compatible, then is it complete out cross or are you line or in breeding, the health checks are good and you breed, what do you get,,,, you can only do your best and use your experience and judgement, but if it dosent work i will tell my friends and show what i have bred, i learned alot in dogs from listening to people who have been doing it longer than me, the CWS is a fantastic breed, i will never be without one but people need to work hard and work together and this breed will do well in the future, my friend and i bred Akitas for many years, my bitch redwitch dancer produced the top winning dog of Austrilia and a bitch was top winning bitch USA, but i stopped breeding Akitas because no one would import new blood lines, the gene pool was shrinking and i got out, i wanted no part in what was to become of the akita in uk, and im glad i did,, i have only bred 3 litters of CWS and i have one due soon i hope but i have imported some dogs, one of which i will not use but give away as pet for it did not come to what i expected, i made a mistake it was costly but i admit it was partly my fault, but i wont breed like some to try and recoup my money back. when the kennel club insist on dna before pedigree is isued i will be happy, untill then we watch,,,,,,,,pacino