Ugly feminine males...

martiou07 · 25-01-2010, 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

This is one of my favorite CsV at the moment and I do not think he looks like a wolf neither

but still he is a nice looking dog !!!

Hi, me too , i like this dog !!!!!

Hanka · 25-01-2010, 08:36

Who knows how old was Bux on fotos? I think it is important to know it if we want write some our view.

michaelundinaeichhorn · 25-01-2010, 10:05

this is the question an expert will ask. As far as I know still younger than 4 what means for a Slovakian male not fully developed.
As everybody knowing the breed out of this times will remember, did the dogs out of this kennel live under incredible circumstances only a very healthy and a very lucky dog could survive, they are somehow a good example that imbreeding isn´t such a big problem for a short period when the dogs you breed with are healthy and the selection is very hard. Some of the low imbreeding dogs out of this time on the other side show that a low imbreeding factor isn´t the garantee for healthy dogs if this is the only factor you care for.
As far as I remember some of the dogs from this breeder had to be rescued in the Czech republic out of the ground of a friend of the breeder, living all of them together in a big house, dead dogs lying amongst the living. I am not 100% sure if this have been Krotkovsky´s dogs, Pavel was the one who published the story of those dogs. But for sure many dogs of this breeder of this time simply disappeared and they didn´t simply dye of normal health problems.

No dog out of such circumstances will present himself well on occasions like an exhibition.
If we simply take a look on the first link we will find as the winners of this show those dogs
best male: http://www.wolfdog.org/ces/dbase/d81.html

I never saw a European Wolf looking like that and being that heavy.
We know from other breeds that selecting on a heavy type will automatically bring health problems, like everything leaving the wolf model.

But even if we leave all of this out of mind it is a good example because breeding is not just mating the best of shows or the best dogs of this year. Even if the dog may have been too light (still in my opinion better for the dog than too heavy) it would have been a perfect match for a bitch with not so long legs, a bit too heavy bones, a broad chest, long ears etc. And in such cases an "outcross" on a highly inbred but healthy male may give great benefit to a line.
And a good breeder and expert is able to see the potential of a dog even if it doesn´t present him well on occasions like exhibitions and knows that you can not really judge from photos.

But anyway, it is a dog not a wolf and all real experts that have seen him I know say without doubt that it was one of the best males they ever saw if not the best.

Ina

Silvester · 25-01-2010, 13:48

Originally posted by Ina:

"best male: http://www.wolfdog.org/ces/dbase/d81.html

I never saw a European Wolf looking like that and being that heavy.
We know from other breeds that selecting on a heavy type will automatically bring health problems, like everything leaving the wolf model.

But even if we leave all of this out of mind it is a good example because breeding is not just mating the best of shows or the best dogs of this year. Even if the dog may have been too light (still in my opinion better for the dog than too heavy) it would have been a perfect match for a bitch with not so long legs, a bit too heavy bones, a broad chest, long ears etc. And in such cases an "outcross" on a highly inbred but healthy male may give great benefit to a line.
And a good breeder and expert is able to see the potential of a dog even if it doesn´t present him well on occasions like exhibitions and knows that you can not really judge from photos."

I completely have the same meaning to this, especially to the sentence of Ina what i have put in fat letters above !

This is very correct.

25-01-2010, 10:05	#3
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	this is the question an expert will ask. As far as I know still younger than 4 what means for a Slovakian male not fully developed. As everybody knowing the breed out of this times will remember, did the dogs out of this kennel live under incredible circumstances only a very healthy and a very lucky dog could survive, they are somehow a good example that imbreeding isn´t such a big problem for a short period when the dogs you breed with are healthy and the selection is very hard. Some of the low imbreeding dogs out of this time on the other side show that a low imbreeding factor isn´t the garantee for healthy dogs if this is the only factor you care for. As far as I remember some of the dogs from this breeder had to be rescued in the Czech republic out of the ground of a friend of the breeder, living all of them together in a big house, dead dogs lying amongst the living. I am not 100% sure if this have been Krotkovsky´s dogs, Pavel was the one who published the story of those dogs. But for sure many dogs of this breeder of this time simply disappeared and they didn´t simply dye of normal health problems. No dog out of such circumstances will present himself well on occasions like an exhibition. If we simply take a look on the first link we will find as the winners of this show those dogs best male: http://www.wolfdog.org/ces/dbase/d81.html I never saw a European Wolf looking like that and being that heavy. We know from other breeds that selecting on a heavy type will automatically bring health problems, like everything leaving the wolf model. But even if we leave all of this out of mind it is a good example because breeding is not just mating the best of shows or the best dogs of this year. Even if the dog may have been too light (still in my opinion better for the dog than too heavy) it would have been a perfect match for a bitch with not so long legs, a bit too heavy bones, a broad chest, long ears etc. And in such cases an "outcross" on a highly inbred but healthy male may give great benefit to a line. And a good breeder and expert is able to see the potential of a dog even if it doesn´t present him well on occasions like exhibitions and knows that you can not really judge from photos. But anyway, it is a dog not a wolf and all real experts that have seen him I know say without doubt that it was one of the best males they ever saw if not the best. Ina Last edited by michaelundinaeichhorn; 25-01-2010 at 10:39. Reason: difficulties in writing English

25-01-2010, 08:36	#2
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Who knows how old was Bux on fotos? I think it is important to know it if we want write some our view.

25-01-2010, 13:48	#4
Silvester Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 369	Originally posted by Ina: "best male: http://www.wolfdog.org/ces/dbase/d81.html I never saw a European Wolf looking like that and being that heavy. We know from other breeds that selecting on a heavy type will automatically bring health problems, like everything leaving the wolf model. But even if we leave all of this out of mind it is a good example because breeding is not just mating the best of shows or the best dogs of this year. Even if the dog may have been too light (still in my opinion better for the dog than too heavy) it would have been a perfect match for a bitch with not so long legs, a bit too heavy bones, a broad chest, long ears etc. And in such cases an "outcross" on a highly inbred but healthy male may give great benefit to a line. And a good breeder and expert is able to see the potential of a dog even if it doesn´t present him well on occasions like exhibitions and knows that you can not really judge from photos." I completely have the same meaning to this, especially to the sentence of Ina what i have put in fat letters above ! This is very correct.