Pituitary Dwarfism test for CsW is available!

[mijke]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

but the main problem seems to be... the price is too high for some people.
So I was wondering about, if we get one ammount of owners (upper than the actual number of tested dogs) willing to make this test in his dogs, would have the possibility of the university turn the price of the test lower?

Originally Posted by jmvdwiel

maybe they are willing to make a discount when you can give them 50 or more samples at one time?
Maybe Mijke can ask them, she is the one with the connections

I agree it is a high price to test a dog for this disease.

And of course I am willing to try to get discount when we are able to send 50 blood samples in one time.
But I doubt if it is really possible to send such an amount of samples in one time!

Maybe it is only possible when we collect blood on a event like World dog show
And I am willing to come over with a vet on such an event and take the blood samples for free! (owners then only have to pay for the test of the university)

And till that time I only can hope that more owners realize it is important to test their CsW.
A lot of owners are still thinking pituitary dwarfism is not a big issue in this breed, they don’t test.

But when 1/5 of the 30 tested dogs from different combinations/lines are carrier , it is probably a big issue in a breed.

And when a breeder counts €25 more for each pup they sell, with one litter they can earn the costs of a pituitary dwarfism test

[mijke]

I feel very sad that in other forum topics people make sometimes accusations and blame each other for health problems.

Because it has been never good for any breed when people did make accusations to breeders about health problems. It is really the most silly thing people can do!

Please realize we don't have a perfect breed! Not any breeder wants to have health problems in his/her lines, but realize we all 'll have in this relative small gene pool ! (small or big, known or still hidden)

And only when we work together , we can work on health problems in a breed.

And for pituitary dwarfism it is really simple: not any dog has to be out of breeding program (not any carrier is a danger for the breed!), only don't make combinations carrier x carrier.

And please don't make anymore a secret of the health problems in our breed!
Only when we can share the info like HD results, eye results and so on we can improve the breed!

In the past no one did hear, or did not know, or did not want to speak about dwarfism. even sometimes it was denied. But after that I did make this more public, more and more info was received from several countries. (even dwarf photo's with names)

And now we have 30 honest owners who did make the official test and did publish the results! (only by DNA blood test we can be sure that it is really pituitary dwarfism.)

I am very grateful this people did want to do the best for the breed and did want to share the info with us!

And I hope there will follow more people and countries who want test and honest share the test results

Blood Test:
A form blood sample is Here to download as pdf file

About price for the test:
I realize it is a high price for everyone!
I often receive the comment that it is a to high for people in east European countries. And I can imagine that is problem for normal owners.
But most of the breeders in east Europe are asking the same prices like West Europe around € 1000 (and that is a lot more then I did ever ask for a pup of any breed!)
But as I did write before when a breeder counts €25 more for each pup they sell, with one litter they can earn the costs of a pituitary dwarfism test

About dwarfs:
Every born dwarf needs medication (special grow hormone and thyrax) to provide awful suffering. It is very hard to get the special grow hormone. People who have a dwarf can contact me in private to speak about possible solutions. [email protected]

When a dwarf is under control by specialists and will get medicines they can grow up like this:

Lilo 18 months, 18 kg and 52 cm.

My requests:

• Please test your CsW
• And please contact me when you think about euthanizing your dwarf (I can give you more info in private)

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by mijke

About price for the test:
I realize it is a high price for everyone!
I often receive the comment that it is a to high for people in east European countries. And I can imagine that is problem for normal owners.
But most of the breeders in east Europe are asking the same prices like West Europe around € 1000 (and that is a lot more then I did ever ask for a pup of any breed!)
But as I did write before when a breeder counts €25 more for each pup they sell, with one litter they can earn the costs of a pituitary dwarfism test

Ok, I do understand the importance of the test, BUT.
What is the minimum fixed salary in Your country?
To make the things more clear: I live in Lithuania, I am a 26 year-old woman, who was studying journalism in Vilnius university. In my still young years I've been working as a journalist, as a public relation specialist in the Ministry of Health, in an international PR company, etc. At the moment I am the author of a TV show (regional TV) about dogs, it means that I do ALL the work in the show, except of camera. And NEVER in my life (hopefully YET ) my salary haven't reached 1000 euro per month Is the situation about Eastern Europe more clear in this light?

[mijke]

For your age the minimum fixed gross salary (without the 30 % tax you have to pay for this) is in my country about € 1270,- ( the same as family without work with 2 kids gets) So don't think the fairy tales about the "LUXERY WEST EUROPE" are always true for everyone here! (I know a boy of 26 with 2 different official university degrees who earns gross salary € 1850 (without the 30 % tax) and that is not any exception.)
Only the "happy few" here make more then 2 or 3 times double.


But for me it is not interesting at all to discuss about salary, price of puppy's and so on!
For everyone it is a relative high price! And when the university sell the test in e few years to a commercial laboratory, it depends of "the market" if it become higher or less.

For everyone for who is breeding as a hobby to improve a breed, it costs money (like every other hobby!)

And for your info: I don't have any benefits for this test! And I did make the test with my female after she was sterilized.

But it is always the personal choice of a owner/breeder to invest in any DNA test for the benefit of the breed for the future.
And when they don't make combinations carrier x carrier they have affords (like for example no dwarfs in a litter, less dead born pups or pups that die in first days, bigger litter. Because pituitary dwarfism is/can be the reason for these things)

And till today I am very grateful that some Dutch, Belgium and Denmark people did invest a lot of money in the test, without any obligation!
AND that they did gave permission to publish test results!

Thanks to them we could see that in 30 tested CsW's from different lines were 6 carriers.
And it is clear that this disease is more spread in the bread then we did expect.
And even when others don't test, dwarfism is one of the real problems in this bread.

But in the 6 carriers are also good CsW's (conform bonitation and HD) that will be breed in future!
And that is good , because excluding all dogs that are carrier of this or other genetic diseases would destroy a breed!
When your male or female is carrier just ask the other party to make a test!

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by mijke

For your age the minimum fixed gross salary (without the 30 % tax you have to pay for this) is in my country about € 1270,- ( the same as family without work with 2 kids gets) So don't think the fairy tales about the "LUXERY WEST EUROPE" are always true for everyone here!

And the minimum fixed salary in Lithuania is a little bit more than 200 euro (also you still have to pay the tax, if I am not mistaken)
But it is not the topic.
Maybe I've mist something, but what is the reason it is not possible to make the same test in other countries, other labs? Maybe that would be the simple way of making more DNA tests for wolfdogs?

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

DNA tests normally are invented by a research-group, they nowadays get a patent (I hope the word is the same in English) and then use it themself or sell it to a commercial lab. DNA-research is expensive, at least in Germany the universities have a chronic lack of money. This is the reason why very often only one lab has the test. Other groups work on the same problems or improve the first published test so on long term there are more labs and cheaper tests.
But DNA-testing is at its beginning it will take time.

This brings us back to the idea of an international DNA-database. Mijke has found a cheap lab as far as I remember. Everybody can look in his own country for tests and labs and we can use it alltogether.

Ina

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

DNA tests normally are invented by a research-group, they nowadays get a patent (I hope the word is the same in English) and then use it themself or sell it to a commercial lab. DNA-research is expensive, at least in Germany the universities have a chronic lack of money. This is the reason why very often only one lab has the test. Other groups work on the same problems or improve the first published test so on long term there are more labs and cheaper tests.
But DNA-testing is at its beginning it will take time.

This brings us back to the idea of an international DNA-database. Mijke has found a cheap lab as far as I remember. Everybody can look in his own country for tests and labs and we can use it alltogether.

Ina

Sorry if my questions sound stupidly, but I really do not understand anything about the way these tests are done. A lab in Lithuania, making DNA tests for people and dogs (for dogs only to check if the parents are the same as written in pedigrees ) says, that they have a possibility to make any tests, they just need to buy the samples So I could ask them about the possibility to make the tests in Lithuania - maybe that would be cheaper? I just need to know if the same test suits for, let's say, GSD Could anyone be so kind and explain this more clearly?

[robertomaggio]

Originally Posted by mijke

For your age the minimum fixed gross salary (without the 30 % tax you have to pay for this) is in my country about € 1270,- ( the same as family without work with 2 kids gets) So don't think the fairy tales about the "LUXERY WEST EUROPE" are always true for everyone here! (I know a boy of 26 with 2 different official university degrees who earns gross salary € 1850 (without the 30 % tax) and that is not any exception.)
Only the "happy few" here make more then 2 or 3 times double.


But for me it is not interesting at all to discuss about salary, price of puppy's and so on!
For everyone it is a relative high price! And when the university sell the test in e few years to a commercial laboratory, it depends of "the market" if it become higher or less.

For everyone for who is breeding as a hobby to improve a breed, it costs money (like every other hobby!)

And for your info: I don't have any benefits for this test! And I did make the test with my female after she was sterilized.

But it is always the personal choice of a owner/breeder to invest in any DNA test for the benefit of the breed for the future.
And when they don't make combinations carrier x carrier they have affords (like for example no dwarfs in a litter, less dead born pups or pups that die in first days, bigger litter. Because pituitary dwarfism is/can be the reason for these things)

And till today I am very grateful that some Dutch, Belgium and Denmark people did invest a lot of money in the test, without any obligation!
AND that they did gave permission to publish test results!

Thanks to them we could see that in 30 tested CsW's from different lines were 6 carriers.
And it is clear that this disease is more spread in the bread then we did expect.
And even when others don't test, dwarfism is one of the real problems in this bread.

But in the 6 carriers are also good CsW's (conform bonitation and HD) that will be breed in future!
And that is good , because excluding all dogs that are carrier of this or other genetic diseases would destroy a breed!
When your male or female is carrier just ask the other party to make a test!

Hello Mijke
I'm Roberto from Italia and I just make test of DM,Hd etcc in all my dogs and now I want to make test for Dwarfism but I receive this mail back from LABOKLIN:
Hello,

"we test the mutation that is known to cause dwarfism. The test does not exclude dwarfism due to possible but yet unknwon further mutation or non genetic backround."

At this point I'm not sure about guarantee that if my dogs are CLEAR in future will be possible that gene change etccc.
Sorry if I don't understand well but I'm sure that you can help me in correct explanation
Ciao
Roberto

[mijke]

The univeristy of Holland is on this moment the only place where the dwarfism test can be done.
Also Laboklin is sending DNA of dogs to holland for the dwarfism test.

The Dwarfism test is testing if a dog has the gene mutation for Pituitary dwarfism.
When you have test a dog and he is Free he will be always Free for this gene mutation!

All the Csw dwarfs that were tested did have the same gene mutation that causes pituitary dwarfism.
But as metionend before : there are sometimes other reasons why a dog is very small. And this has nothing to do with pituitary dwarfism!

It is very strange that Laboklin did send such mails about the dwarfims test.
Because there can always appear new gene mutations in a breed.
And theoretical it is possible that there will appear in future an other gene mutation that causes an other form of a disease.

But that is possible for all the genetic diseases we know now!!
So it is a bit strange to mention this only for pituitary dwarfism!

[martiou07]

Originally Posted by mijke

Maybe it is only possible when we collect blood on a event like World dog show
And I am willing to come over with a vet on such an event and take the blood samples for free! (owners then only have to pay for the test of the university)

let us can consider that at the world dog show in Paris?

also, it would be necessary which you would be on the maximum of anybody wishes to do it, but I think, he can be possible on each forum of wolfdog.org to envisage that.

that will allow to advance a maximum for the tests of the nanism and DM...

[Shadowlands]

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post Pituitary Dwarfism test results but today I received the result from Laboklin for

Wolfy von Konigs-Terry: genome N/N

We are happy

Again only by email but hopefully the certificates will follow soon.

Mijke, I have forwarded the email to wolfdog-healthinfo for you.

[mijke]

Thanks I will add next update!