Misleading article about Hybrids and Wolfdogs

[Joswolf]

That was for a long time ago. Over 30 years no wolf used and domestication. Its a dog. Or any dog is a pure wolf then no other animal is used. A wolfhybride is nothing like a Saarloos. A Saarloos i a family dog.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Joswolf

That was for a long time ago. Over 30 years no wolf used and domestication. Its a dog. Or any dog is a pure wolf then no other animal is used. A wolfhybride is nothing like a Saarloos. A Saarloos i a family dog.

That is data from CsV and Saarloos born 2005-2009

Data link on post #20

Regards / M

[Joswolf]

Then your data is wrong. I am committee member and should now. Saarloos was lived 1884-1969 and after that now wolf was used. Selection makes it a dog after the years. It's not a wolfhybride anymore but a dog.
I have wolves, hybrides and Saarloos and see the differnce every day.
Jos

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Joswolf

Then your data is wrong. I am committee member and should now. Saarloos was lived 1884-1969 and after that now wolf was used. Selection makes it a dog after the years. It's not a wolfhybride anymore but a dog.
I have wolves, hybrides and Saarloos and see the differnce every day.
Jos

Yes you are right the data is wrong as it is mathematic, but according to the data calculated from your database the Saarloos breed has a higher mathematic woolfblood than CsV There for I think you are wrong to say Saarloos is a dog but not CsV

And remember they are both dog breed´s according to the FCI

Best regards / Mikael

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Joswolf

But my house dogs are dogs. Thats wat a Saarloos is.

My house dog used to be and now another one is a dog. That's what CSVs are. My kids started looking after Tina on their own when they were 10 and 13 .

Still, I wouldn't leave my CSV unattended with my grandchild, just like I wouldn't leave a GSD, a spaniel or even a yorkshire terrier alone with any young kid. Not because the dog is wild or unpredictable, but because it's a matter of responsibilty and imagination, which tikaani mentioned. Too many accidents have happened worldwide with placid family dogs of various breeds attacking kids all of a sudden, and for what at first sight seemed, no reasons.

Jos, don't get cross with me, I'm not your enemy, but just have another view on this issue. Maybe at my age one is less prone to take risks...

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Yes you are right the data is wrong as it is mathematic, but according to the data calculated from your database the Saarloos breed has a higher mathematic woolfblood than CsV There for I think you are wrong to say Saarloos is a dog but not CsV

And remember they are both dog breed´s according to the FCI

Best regards / Mikael

The wolf percentage will be only trully alterated if someone add new blood of wolf or dog, untill it not happens the percentagen will stay with a very small variation dog by dog, in whole breed, we can say "static"... it doesn't make the dog more wolf or dog, the selection is what will make the difference in this question.
Anyway, Saarloos as CzW are selected dog breed which comes from a cross between wolf and dog, this kind of mixage isn't new and some other breeds have, but at the FCI breeds seems that only SWH and CZW have this mixage as officially (made propositally, with studie and, not necessarelly at start but maybe after some time, with the will to make a new breed).

[Joswolf]

Originally Posted by Rona

My house dog used to be and now another one is a dog. That's what CSVs are. My kids started looking after Tina on their own when they were 10 and 13 .

Still, I wouldn't leave my CSV unattended with my grandchild, just like I wouldn't leave a GSD, a spaniel or even a yorkshire terrier alone with any young kid. Not because the dog is wild or unpredictable, but because it's a matter of responsibilty and imagination, which tikaani mentioned. Too many accidents have happened worldwide with placid family dogs of various breeds attacking kids all of a sudden, and for what at first sight seemed, no reasons.

Jos, don't get cross with me, I'm not your enemy, but just have another view on this issue. Maybe at my age one is less prone to take risks...

I don't cross nor see you as enemy. I just trust my wolfdogs fully. There is now special risk. In fact you take risk when you cross the street. But we can live with it. But it was about wolfhybrides and danger. And the wolfdogs CWD or SWD are non. I talked about Saarloos couse i now more about these breed. I forgot to mention CWD but didn;t mean anything by that. But the article was about hybrides and a potentionel danger. My statement was that the CWD and SWD don't belong in this cathegory.
Some AWD aswell mayby. But it is hard to say couse al lot of differences there is in %wolf. With the CWD and SWD you now what you get. If you have fresh mixed hybrides the first generation's you don't. Special when you breed F1XF1. They need extra care and you must now how to handle and have good fence. You can not tread them as dogs. A Saarloos can easely be scared but when a wolf panics...
Jos

[GalomyOak]

Not entirely on topic, but several parts of this discussion made me think of this website, which I check with interest every now and then (no CSV or Saarloos...)

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Art...llDogsBite.htm

Also, it reminded me of this very old thread:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=334

And this article, which I always keep a copy of in case I meet a dog warden who isn't quite convinced that the breed is a breed, despite all of the registration papers:
http://www.asuperiorgsd.com/wolf-dog.html

All good things,
Marcy

[Joswolf]

Yes every dog can bite. Car accident's happen every day and yet we get in and don't worry.
I don't need links just look in the newspaper.
On topic is an article over hybrides wich is not the every day acceptable risk but a wild animal mixed with an dog. All the rest ic off topic.
Jos

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by Joswolf

Yes every dog can bite. Car accident's happen every day and yet we get in and don't worry.
I don't need links just look in the newspaper.
On topic is an article over hybrides wich is not the every day acceptable risk but a wild animal mixed with an dog. All the rest ic off topic.
Jos

If you look through that particular link, there are several "American Wolf Hybrid" cases interspersed...only a small percentage (the worst) of what has been in our news in recent years. You are right, Joswolf, we are all aware of these cases. But yet persistantly, at least in the US, we still have "breed specific legislation", which usually includes "wolfdogs" (no officials know the CSV or Saarloos). The best leg we have to stand on (legally) is the proven, documented standardization of the breed through decades of officially recorded breedings with high breeding pressure on temperament. Everyone also knows, dogs become more predictable that way. It's one of my biggest problems with hybrids in the US - there is not nearly as much predictability in the American mixes, because they have not followed the strict breeding schemes for anywhere near as much time as the CSV or Saarloos.

My point with the GSD links, and the other...like I said, this thread only made me think of the links...there are no absolutes in any living creature, only higher or lower thresholds for certain behaviors and what triggers them...even in one of the more "recent", well known, and beloved wolfdog breed before ours, the GSD. As owners of any breed, we can perform "best practice" with minimized risk by knowing the established trend and standard of predicted behavior of our breed, the unique, actual exhibited behavior of individual dogs, and a full knowledge of responsible ownership.

In short, I agree, the article is misleading.

[Bugle]

Originally Posted by Puma

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...half-wolf.html

Here we go again...

I agree !! And WHEN will we ever get away from the term of "hybrid" to describe a wolf cross. It is totally inaccuate, and guaranteed to send me into paroxyms of rage !!