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Health and nutrition How to feed a Wolfdog, information about dog food, how to vaccinate and what to do if the dog gets ill.... |
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#1 | |
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We can't compare ED 1 with HD C as the dog with ED 1 already shows the degeneration, when a dog with HD C can have perfect bones with no degeneration, but only not nice norberg angles.
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#2 | |
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 575
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Maybe I am stupid, but HD = Hip Dysplasia and ED = Elbow Dysplasia, so it is Dysplasia in the hips and in the elbows, how come one is worser than another, I mean it is the same thing, but in different places, so the degree of how bad or good it is, must be in the scales HD = A, B, C, etc. and ED = 0/0, 1/1, 2/2, etc. ? ...or am I totally wrong ? Rolf |
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#3 | ||
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Hereditability of HD: 20% to 40% Herebitability of ED: 40% of 100% Depending of the breed. In easy words, Norberg Angles are the meassure of the angle formed by the center of the femor head with the acetabulum border, those angle is one thing evaluated in the HD exam and different angles results in different HD results. Basically, when more far the femoral head is from acetabulum, less angles it will have, worst result the dog will have. Actually, this metod works pretty well and really helps the selection of the dogs, for sure it will show a displasic dog without any problems as it will show any kind of degeneration already existent, but the polemic of the metod is that the laxity of the cartilage cannot be really evaluate in the X rays, so we can see some cases of females in heath who had receive bad results in the first X rays, and a normal one with nice results about 2 months after it because the hormonal incluence in the cartilages, we also have few cases of very old dogs with bad norberg angles but no damage at all in the femor, but this last one seems to be pretty rare. Remembering that now we have the Distraction metod ( pennhip) which evaluate the laxity, but unhapply its still not avaible for every country like the well know X-ray metod. I think this part already reply you the next one, what is the difference in a HD C dog and a ED 1 dog, as the two are considerated displasic Quote:
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#4 |
Gran figl de putt Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,638
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...this is wrong...HD ever start from genetic heritage...development of the disease for 80% depend on external factors!!
is a big differences!!!! "...a genetically healthy dog can not get HD disease from external factors.." i must put bibliografy again?
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IO CE L'HO PROFUMATO Last edited by woland77; 26-08-2009 at 07:51. |
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#5 | ||
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I no moment I said HD was not a genetical illness, but the truth is that external factors make a huge difference in the results, of course a dog without genetic for displasy will not show it BUT nothing impeach this dog to have a subluxation because the place it lives or by accident, wrong feed with wrong exercices can cause artritis, all those cases will be considered displasic in the exams, even if those animals have no dysplasi in their genetic, of course we will not see an A dog turn E because it, but we can see non displasic dogs with B or C. No wonder why we have so many grades for HD. Yes, the dog cant get displasy by external factors, but he can have artritis and artrosis by it, and it will change the HD evaluation on the official results also as a non displasic dog with bad norberg angles. In the same way you can get a dog which have a strong genetic for the problem, but because the threatment it will receive B or C. Well, we have no doubts about how 20 to 30% of genetic can make a huge difference, you can see it principally in the behaviour of working dogs, now you can imagine how much difference it can make when its 40 to 100%.
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#6 |
fica secca
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Treviso
Posts: 640
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A harmful environmental factor in the pup is genetically able in a healthy dog as HD regards, to provoke a arthrosic degeneration of the hip (owed to traumas and bacterial infections, ect ect), very similar to the HD for symptoms, but well distinguishable in the x-ray examination.
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#7 | |
Gran figl de putt Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,638
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Arthrosic degeneration can't have influence on dysplasya official result Many people (not you) don't know very well HD from scientific point wiew, is dangerous to say: "Hereditability of HD: 20% to 40%" is better, and more correct to say: "A dysplasic dog inherits his disease from genetic/hereditary way (100%), but the modulation, expression and seriousness are controlled at 60-80% by environmental factors"
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#8 |
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 575
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Today I have been talking with 4 different vets., one of them is Peter Weis which is a specialist in diagnostics and treatment of joint-/bones-illness and radiography (including PennHIP), he is also member of NOVOS(Nordic Veterinary Orthopedics Society).
They all stated that, HD / AD is both EQUALLY a product of enviroment and hereditary, to proove that one of them have a higher % of hereditary than the other is impossible, as you can not create the EXACT same enviroment for two dogs(even harder with more dogs) to grow up in and further more is it impossible two find to dogs with ABSOLUTLY same genes, which in both cases can make all the difference in the final results. None of them have never heard of breeding from ED free dogs, will give almost all puppies free of ED or that breeding from dogs with ED will for sure give all puppies ED, to me they all explained that the hereditary risks of HD and ED is absolutly the same. Conclution : It makes no sense to exclude dogs with a mild degree of ED and allow dogs with a mild degree of HD, as one is not worser or better than the other. Was this not the reason why Admin made this step, to remove all dogs with ED ? ...aparrently it is for no reason, unless all dogs with HD is removed too ! Please correct me if I am wrong, nobody is perfect ![]() Rolf Last edited by Juniorwolf; 26-08-2009 at 21:30. |
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