Northern inuit dog

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by solowolf

my personal opinion is only cross cwd with pure wolf to help with new blood line, and i think if put to any kennell club they will agree to this as long as you come away again by mybe 4-5 generations, but to breed to the so called inuit that after all are not even a classified breed of dog yet, but breeders have showen through there ignorance and lack of breeding knowledge that all they have produced so far after many years are dogs that now have major health problems, they have not produced type after all these years, hardly two dogs look the same yet they have a club and give a breed standard,,,,??????? so of what use could they ever be to the cwd, none at all, i brought the first czech to uk, had first litter, and all mew owners promised never to use my pups to cross breed, i spent further 5 yrs getting law changed in uk so others could own and enjoy this fantastic breed of dog, someone one day will do a cross breeding that will result in someone getting hurt or mauled and guess what dog will get the blame and once again be classed as a dangerous wild animal,,,,, you got it the cwd,,,, and now the people who cross bred wait on me to get the cwd recognised by the k.c. because if i dont register my first litter then the cwd will not get registration in uk for many many years as there will not be enough dogs, i have no interest in cross bred cwd only with wolf for to better the lines, INA and co dont agree they must think its ok to have so high percent inbreeding in the cwd lines over so short generations but it cant get better unless we have new blood lines, i bring my cwd bitchs to be mated but still the inbreeding is high on percentage, i will breed down from the wolf and my cwd but i will never regiister the pups, i will keep record only for what i do, in short time i will be back to bred true and i will show my dogs photos to all, and there will be new blood line for people interested in saving the breed, i use the european wolf only, look at the wolfdogs from different countries, there is a difference in appearence, charater and type, WHY? if all our pure cwd why is this happening to the breed? health issues will arrise in all breed but in the cwd over last 5-6 yrs look at all the topics in posts, eyes, epilepsy, dwarf, and more, the futer of the breed is in the hands of the breeders most of who are in europe SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT ??????????? What future plans, new bloodline? are clubs talking together to see for the future of the breed or is every one waiting till it end up to late,, this is a registered cwd ARTEMIS TESTAMONIUM DIABOLI is this within breed standard, is this the future of what is to come, the breed is declining in type rapidly throughout Europe and its all on this web site for all to see, kennel blind is not an excuse for not taking action, I REST MY CASE......pacino

Old post, Originally posted by Mikael
I think people are not against new blood or a blood line, but it is important that it is done by experts on CsV and mix-breeding, not by just any privet kennel that has dollar interests...

And the CsV people and clubs are not narrow like udder breeding clubs, in the CsV population new blood can bee added. How many udder breed clubs in Europe are willing to do that ??? only CsV as I know...

But I agree...WHEN ???

And way is there no CSV BLOODLINE FUNDATION for all breeders to put money into after every litter if they wont ??? maby like 5% / litter, and maby (wee) will have money to make some new bloodlines in the future...

Best regards / Mikael

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Mikael

And way is there no CSV BLOODLINE FUNDATION for all breeders to put money into after every litter if they wont ??? maby like 5% / litter, and maby (wee) will have money to make some new bloodlines in the future...

Best regards / Mikael

Did nobody think that this was a good ide ???

Or do you think that the Cz and SL clubs will pay for it ??? then dream on...

Best regards / Mikael

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Did nobody think that this was a good ide ???

Or do you think that the Cz and SL clubs will pay for it ??? then dream on...

Best regards / Mikael

Mikael I really don`t think money is the issue, but politic is
...and as Slovakia have the patronage of the breed it is the Slovakian club who decides if or when new lines will be a reality, but I agree that it is better to prevent than to repair

Greetings Rolf

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by rolf

Mikael I really don`t think money is the issue, but politic is
...and as Slovakia have the patronage of the breed it is the Slovakian club who decides if or when new lines will be a reality, but I agree that it is better to prevent than to repair

Greetings Rolf

But if they have the money, what is the political problem ???
And way this delay, the sooner the better,
because this will take time to do...maby 12-16 years I think...

Best regards / Mikael

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

But if they have the money, what is the political problem ???
And way this delay, the sooner the better,
because this will take time to do...maby 12-16 years I think...

Best regards / Mikael

I think there is many problems(maybe it is just me), but here I will mention just a few of them :
Who will supervise the breeding program and have control with all puppies ? Who will have space, time and experience enough to have F1/F2/F3 puppies and to train with them and who will approve these people ? Which CSW`s/wolves/German shepherds should be used to make this new line or should there only be introduced new wolfblood ? Which F1/F2/F3 puppies should be used in the breeding(what will be the limits for exterier/character/training) and who will be jugde for this ? Should there be somekind of legal contract for F1/F2/F3-puppy owners to be a part of the breeding-program and how to make such a contract who accually will work in all countries ?

What will it help to make a new line, if some people still breed without HD-results, bonitation and according to standart without any effort to improve the breed(read post 111 by Saschia) ?

....I think it is not so easy as it might seems to be !

I think this is a little outside the thread, but very interesting

Greetings Rolf

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by rolf

I think there is many problems(maybe it is just me), but here I will mention just a few of them :
Who will supervise the breeding program and have control with all puppies ? Who will have space, time and experience enough to have F1/F2/F3 puppies and to train with them and who will approve these people ? Which CSW`s/wolves/German shepherds should be used to make this new line or should there only be introduced new wolfblood ? Which F1/F2/F3 puppies should be used in the breeding(what will be the limits for exterier/character/training) and who will be jugde for this ? Should there be somekind of legal contract for F1/F2/F3-puppy owners to be a part of the breeding-program and how to make such a contract who accually will work in all countries ?

What will it help to make a new line, if some people still breed without HD-results, bonitation and according to standart without any effort to improve the breed(read post 111 by Saschia) ?

....I think it is not so easy as it might seems to be !

I think this is a little outside the thread, but very interesting

Greetings Rolf

I think these are very good questions - they made me think of some more, too.

1. If a new wolf (or more) were introduced into the breed, how would this selection take place? I am still very new at this, so maybe this is written somewhere in the history - were the original wolves picked for certain qualities (like temperament, or health, for instance)? If so, I would think it was probably easier in the 1950's for the government of the time to select the ideal wolf to breed, than a breed club of any country in 2009. I think now, selection would be limited to only captive animals, which may have had some inbreeding/health/temperament problems already from humans. But, I don't know the laws of Europe exactly, I could be wrong.

2. In the 1950s, in the original breedings - were all offspring of the F1 breedings used? I think I remember reading somewhere, that some puppies sacrificed their lives if they were not usable. In today's more "humane" age, I don't think this would be acceptable, so this could mean large quantities of F1-F2 puppies that are "extras", and would probably need suitable homes for 10+ years minimum.

3. How would adding in more wolf genes affect legal status of the breed in all countries? In the US, for instance, wolfdogs up to F5 are considered dangerous and wild animals. Would the FCI accept this decision of a breed club willingly?

4. How do genetics act in the wild for wolves? I know with natural selection, it is very different - but I think there must be some degree of inbreeding naturally?

5. At what point are two dogs (or wolfdogs) considered genetically distant? With humans (again, in the US, this is what I know best, obviously), it is legal to marry your second cousin (your cousin's child, I think) in some states, because the risk of genetic problems is lower (maybe...). How does this compare to a purebred dog over generations?

There are many risks, in addition to many benefits to consider, I think, if this ever took place. Definitely an interesting topic!

All of the best,
Marcy

[Hanka]

Hmmmm, but why somebody can think about new wolf in breed? If do you mean wolfdogs have small "genopool", all breeders can help if they will use males from small bloodgroups. For example in Czech we needs more pups from Akenah Runar Wawanyanka, Argo Prizrak Karpat, Afis testamonium Diaboli..... etc etc. Every country can look at all males (thear pedigree from first dogs-males in population) and look - "what males ( grand grand grandfethers ) we have not in our country". It is most effective help for our breed. Not new wolves.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by rolf

I think there is many problems(maybe it is just me), but here I will mention just a few of them :
Who will supervise the breeding program and have control with all puppies ? Who will have space, time and experience enough to have F1/F2/F3 puppies and to train with them and who will approve these people ? Which CSW`s/wolves/German shepherds should be used to make this new line or should there only be introduced new wolfblood ? Which F1/F2/F3 puppies should be used in the breeding(what will be the limits for exterier/character/training) and who will be jugde for this ? Should there be somekind of legal contract for F1/F2/F3-puppy owners to be a part of the breeding-program and how to make such a contract who accually will work in all countries ?

What will it help to make a new line, if some people still breed without HD-results, bonitation and according to standart without any effort to improve the breed(read post 111 by Saschia) ?

....I think it is not so easy as it might seems to be !

I think this is a little outside the thread, but very interesting

Greetings Rolf

Yes I know it will not bee easy at all and it will take time and cost money...

But I think it can and must bee done in the future...

FCI now only register breeds whit have minimum 8 different blood lines,
because of less than that will make a to small gene pool = big problems...

I was only thinking it maybe was time to start to collect the money in good time,
and maby start plan fore the future

But yes I´m far of the topic

Regards / Mikael

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Yes I know it will not bee easy at all and it will take time and cost money...

But I think it can and must bee done in the future...

FCI now only register breeds whit have minimum 8 different blood lines,
because of less than that will make a to small gene pool = big problems...

I was only thinking it maybe was time to start to collect the money in good time,
and maby start plan fore the future

But yes I´m far of the topic

Regards / Mikael

As Saschia and Hanka also is writing, I think it is more importent and efficient to have a good breeding plan for already excisting CSW`s, so maybe an international breedingkomitee for our breed would be a good idea, but this will be very difficult(if not impossible) I think ?
New lines do not help anything if people keep breeding without HD-results, bonitation and work/exterier-qualities ...sad but true

Greetings Rolf

[Navajo]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Did nobody think that this was a good ide ???

Or do you think that the Cz and SL clubs will pay for it ??? then dream on...

Best regards / Mikael

Can you elaborate please.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Navajo

Can you elaborate please.

Yes, I did think money might be the problem way nothing is happening,
but maby I was wrong ???

But still... some people are mad about that there is no new bloodline,
but are they ready to help ? by money or work ???

Regards / Mikael

[Navajo]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Yes, I did think money might be the problem way nothing is happening,
but maby I was wrong ???

But still... some people are mad about that there is no new bloodline,
but are they ready to help ? by money or work ???

Regards / Mikael

As in lack of money, to buy new stock in? Is that what you mean?

I think alot of people are willing to help in work and also financially to a certain extent too.