de Louba Tar kennel

solowolf · 10-12-2008, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke

I never did write you were telling lies....
And also several Dutch people did complain in the past about these strange double kennel names to the Dutch kennelclub.

And of course I know a lot more rumours about several breeders.

But I'll never believe or add some unproven things about breeders on this site.

When I did buy the pedigree CD rom of the Dutch kennel organisation, I did have the official evidence that this breeder did have (and did use) 2 kennel names.
So at that moment I did add both of them on this site.
And believe me, when I would have more proven things, I would add them.

But I don’t want to deal with rumours about anyone!

hi, yes i know also of people who complained but as yet nothing has been done??? i have sent u email, if you reply then you have all the evidence i do not want it public as yet, i do not want appologies from anyone just a few words, mr winder is correct in things regarding de louba tar kennels will do,,,,, i have no personal vendetta with Mrs Cornellia Keizer just that she should never be allowed to keep any animal ever again. mr winder uk

bengan · 11-12-2008, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by solowolf

hi, yes i know also of people who complained but as yet nothing has been done??? i have sent u email, if you reply then you have all the evidence i do not want it public as yet, i do not want appologies from anyone just a few words, mr winder is correct in things regarding de louba tar kennels will do,,,,, i have no personal vendetta with Mrs Cornellia Keizer just that she should never be allowed to keep any animal ever again. mr winder uk

Paul.. until your "evidence" is public and proven.. you should keep your opinions to yourself..and if your "evidence" is not made public and proven then it's you who will have to make apologies

solowolf · 14-12-2008, 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by bengan

Paul.. until your "evidence" is public and proven.. you should keep your opinions to yourself..and if your "evidence" is not made public and proven then it's you who will have to make apologies

oh no not you yet again,, sorry to dissapoint you but i will definately not have to make any appologies, fact 1 I am only one of the people to give evidence in the case, fact 2 it has taken yrs to put together all evidence,fact 3 most evidence comes from members of DUTCH KENNEL CLUB,,,and other witnesses,, fact 4 it concerns your breed interests not mine, but at least i can say i done something to help the Saarloos breed and help preserve it, it is obvious you havnt a clue just how close this wonderful breed is to major disaster in Europe so therefor i must state that infact you really dont know what goes on with the Saarloos wolfhound at all, if you did then you have funny way of showing any concern about it, i know lots of Saarloos breeders and they all know about the cross breeding, false registering bastard dogs, health problems created in France, and yet you have not,,,,, very strang indeed,, Two questions only for you to answer,,, HOW MANY PURE BRED SAARLOOS ARE THERE LEFT? HOW MANY PURE LINES ARE LEFT TO BREED FROM ? Pacino

mijke · 20-12-2008, 02:10

I did receive the CD of Paul (with 121 pages in Dutch language) and I was not really impressed.
Because there was NO NEW info for me …… except maybe the names of a few dogs in a statement of Paul that were made black.

Most of the photo’s were already published in forum topics and links on this site.
In the data base we already did add the two kennel names that this breeder uses. (Based on the facts of the pedigree CD of the Dutch kennel organisation Raad van Beheer).
On this site this kennel is on the list of Dutch breeders because all of the pups get Dutch pedigrees. But all wolfdog people (SWH and CSW) in Holland and abroad know that this kennel is situated in France and that is not a secret (because everybody can see this also on the link to the sites that are used on the Dutch club site and here)
Also a lot of people know that in this kennel you can also buy dogs of other kennels (this info is on their pedigree and contract and a lot of people did show this to others )
And for this forum and site it is also not interesting at all that a breeder uses different addresses and strange contracts.
But..
I only can hope that all the facts and proves on this CD can stop a breeder to do such strange things!

The DNA proves are only interesting for SWH world. And that is why I don’t want to speak or discuss about this here.
For CsW world there were no real interesting or new facts, nor facts that moderators of this site already did not know.

So for me this is the and of this discussion.

And for every body who want to know more: please contact Paul. Because I don’t make copy’s of the CD

solowolf · 20-12-2008, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke

I did receive the CD of Paul (with 121 pages in Dutch language) and I was not really impressed.
Because there was NO NEW info for me …… except maybe the names of a few dogs in a statement of Paul that were made black.

Most of the photo’s were already published in forum topics and links on this site.
In the data base we already did add the two kennel names that this breeder uses. (Based on the facts of the pedigree CD of the Dutch kennel organisation Raad van Beheer).
On this site this kennel is on the list of Dutch breeders because all of the pups get Dutch pedigrees. But all wolfdog people (SWH and CSW) in Holland and abroad know that this kennel is situated in France and that is not a secret (because everybody can see this also on the link to the sites that are used on the Dutch club site and here)
Also a lot of people know that in this kennel you can also buy dogs of other kennels (this info is on their pedigree and contract and a lot of people did show this to others )
And for this forum and site it is also not interesting at all that a breeder uses different addresses and strange contracts.
But..
I only can hope that all the facts and proves on this CD can stop a breeder to do such strange things!

The DNA proves are only interesting for SWH world. And that is why I don’t want to speak or discuss about this here.
For CsW world there were no real interesting or new facts, nor facts that moderators of this site already did not know.

So for me this is the and of this discussion.

And for every body who want to know more: please contact Paul. Because I don’t make copy’s of the CD

hi thank you for honest comments on cd, i have access to direct offspring from Chrop and can contact owner for sample this may help trace link in lineage to dwarf in CWS, as i do not want any contraversy over vet used, i am prepared to bring bitch to Europe to vet of your choice in spring of 2009, regards Pacino

z Peronówki · 10-12-2017, 14:02

After many years the breeding business has just been stoped....

z Peronówki · 10-12-2017, 14:04

Saarloos-breeder sentenced to 4 months in jail

10/20/2017 - 17:45
A French court sentenced the Dutch breeder and judge Cornelia Keizer to 4 months imprisonment. According to the ruling, Emperor would have been guilty of both breeding wolf dogs without the correct papers,and maltreatment of the dogs. An allegation of fraud with foundation fees was deemed not to be proven and for that reason Keizer was acquitted. Keizer said she will appeal.

The story about the 70-year-old Keizer begins in April of this year when the French SPA, an Animal Welfare Organization, receives an anonymous letter in which the breeder is accused of breeding of wolf dogs in "deplorable" circumstances. Pure wolf dogs like the Saarloos and Czech wolf dogs are allowed in France, other wolf hybrids without clear origin are subjected to special regulations and are not allowed in the absence of papers. Also, Keizer was said to breed and sell the dogs in the name of a foundation. This Foundation called Les Loupes Ravis (The Happy Wolves) is a foundation that, according to its website, is dedicated to rehoming primitive dog breeds that are abandoned or need rehoming due to circumstances. After they have been stabilized and socialized, the Foundation is rehoming these dogs with new families, with the Foundation following up.
Keizer is not unknown in the world of wolf dogs. Since her first Saarloos in 1973, she left her tracks in the world of wolf dogs, even though she has a controversial history. Particularly with the Saarloos wolf dogs, there is a fierce struggle between purists who want to avoid any blend of Saarloos wolfdog blood and on the other side the group of people who want to use crossbreeding to cope with hereditary health problems. More specifically, the breeding policy the Dutch Association of Saarlooswolfhonden is committed says: "The centralized breeding policy is characterized by a joint vision of breeding, in which all members take their responsibility for future-oriented breeding and population management. Together we put ourselves on the line for the greater importance: a healthy, reliable and breed typical Saarlooswolfdog. "The other breed club, the General Association of Friends of Saarlooswolfdogs, has a different view. According to them, there are too many inbreeding problems due to this restrictive measure. "Bitches do not get pregnant, and the mating of males was worrying, fewer puppies were born, the litters became smaller and smaller. Puppies were stillborn." Within the NVSWH, there was no hearing, and so the AVVS was established in 2006. Because Keizer was increasingly criticized by her outcross view in the Netherlands, she had already moved to the French Ardennes to establish her kennel there. She was also taken from the Dutch Judges register and registered in the French register of judges, the Societe Centrale Canine, the French Kennel Club.

This went on for years without problems, and the kennel grew bigger and bigger. Until the anonymous letter arrived this spring. The SPA then stated they found neglected dogs. According to the French press, 83 emaciated dogs were found during the check the SPA executed together with representatives of the French court. Other sources mention 133 dogs kept under terrible conditions, including 60 puppies and young dogs. Iwt was said these weren’t the first complaints since in 2012 and 2015 the situation was brought to the attention of animal welfare organizations and police, but nothing was done tat the time. The French breed association for Dutch dogs supposedly had been informed, but did not take any action. Keizer was also a secretary at that association, and regularly worked as a judge. Although there was a one-year suspension as a judge, Keizer returned to the breed association afterwards.

Indeed, if Dogzine asks about this matter at the French breed association, spokeswoman Annie Pouvesle states that no irregularities have been found, even last April. "Les services vétérinaires de la Préfecture suivait le dossier, en n'ont jamais constaté aucun mauvais traitement sur les chiens." According to Pouvesle, the dogs were not confiscated, but the SPA had allowed Keizer to voluntarily remise the dogs because 90 dogs were too many. The counteraction that had been going on for years would finally have been too much for Keizer. "Elle est l'objet de harcèlement depuis de nombreuses années. Ce sont ces mêmes personnes qui sont à l'origine de la plainte, et quai sur internet de fausses information (nombre de chiens incorrect, faux témoignages, etc.) ", or" She has been harrassed for years. These are the same people who are the source of the complaint, and spread the wrong information on the internet (being an incorrect number of dogs, false testimonies, etc.).

The SPA in St. Omer, the place in question, also states that it is not a confiscation but a voluntary giving away. The dogs were not abused, but mainly malnourished, on the verge of bad treatment. "Ils n'étaient pas frappés ils s'agit surtout de surnombre et de manque de nourriture et soins c'est de la négligence mais ça commencé à être unmeform de maltraitance." Injuries other then regular things also were not present. In the shelter they could re-socialize, and the interest for the dogs turned out to be high. Most of them soon arrived in other homes.

And before the lawsuit, Cornelia Keizer also states that it's especially a witch hunt on her and she has been planning to slim the kennel for a long time. "In view of my age, I started 10 years ago looking for a successor to continue my work. 3 failed attempts (hard work, not a lot of glamour in poop scooping, no financial reward!) urged me to hand over the dogs to the most prominent animal protection agency. There are no confiscated or malnourished dogs . " Both the breed association and other sources report that they have been regularly with volunteers at Keizer to help, and also to neuter the dogs.
It is a fact that, thanks to Keizer’s efforts, there are still enough dogs, also in the Netherlands. A source reports to Dogzine: "Apart from this she has sold hundreds of Saarlooswolfhonden in the Netherlands between 1995 to 2008. Without her there would not have been a Saarlooswolfdog population outside the NVSWH." Keizer herself says: "I will be 70 this year and have spent all of my time on my dogs and the cynology in general for 44 years now: directorships in regional dog clubs, co-founder and years of chairman of the Association for Czechoslovak Wolfdogs, board member of several French breed clubs (BHCF, now ABNF) and the club français du chien de montagne de l'Atlas) "The French kennel club, the SCC, states they have no file on this case and have no further information on this matter.
Keizer still had nine dogs, although she states the number is seven. Maybe one more litter in the future, but there is no rush: "Well-deserved rest and travel have my priority!"
Also, Keizer wishes to remain a judge. "The groups I judge (groups 1,2 and 5) give me the opportunity to stay in touch with my favorite breeds and I hope to keep doing until at an even higher age!"
Despite all this, Keizer’s role fort he breed remains of major importance. Thanks to her, although maybe not always fully monitored, there always was a relatively stable number of SWHs, also in the Netherlands. However, the NVVS sees those dogs most preferably removed from the studbook. Even though there are hardly any animals born in the last few years, according to the NVVS breeding records, as opponents report. The NVVS itself reports "There is no big breeding within the NVSWH."
When the appeal is, is still unknown.

Auteur
Andre Heuzer
http://dogzine.nl/en/newsarticle/saa...-4-months-jail

20-12-2008, 02:10	#4
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	I did receive the CD of Paul (with 121 pages in Dutch language) and I was not really impressed. Because there was NO NEW info for me …… except maybe the names of a few dogs in a statement of Paul that were made black. Most of the photo’s were already published in forum topics and links on this site. In the data base we already did add the two kennel names that this breeder uses. (Based on the facts of the pedigree CD of the Dutch kennel organisation Raad van Beheer). On this site this kennel is on the list of Dutch breeders because all of the pups get Dutch pedigrees. But all wolfdog people (SWH and CSW) in Holland and abroad know that this kennel is situated in France and that is not a secret (because everybody can see this also on the link to the sites that are used on the Dutch club site and here) Also a lot of people know that in this kennel you can also buy dogs of other kennels (this info is on their pedigree and contract and a lot of people did show this to others ) And for this forum and site it is also not interesting at all that a breeder uses different addresses and strange contracts. But.. I only can hope that all the facts and proves on this CD can stop a breeder to do such strange things! The DNA proves are only interesting for SWH world. And that is why I don’t want to speak or discuss about this here. For CsW world there were no real interesting or new facts, nor facts that moderators of this site already did not know. So for me this is the and of this discussion. And for every body who want to know more: please contact Paul. Because I don’t make copy’s of the CD __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

10-12-2017, 14:02	#6
z Peronówki VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Późna Posts: 6,996	After many years the breeding business has just been stoped.... __________________ . 'Z PERONÓWKI' FACEBOOK GROUP

10-12-2017, 14:04	#7
z Peronówki VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Późna Posts: 6,996	Saarloos-breeder sentenced to 4 months in jail 10/20/2017 - 17:45 A French court sentenced the Dutch breeder and judge Cornelia Keizer to 4 months imprisonment. According to the ruling, Emperor would have been guilty of both breeding wolf dogs without the correct papers,and maltreatment of the dogs. An allegation of fraud with foundation fees was deemed not to be proven and for that reason Keizer was acquitted. Keizer said she will appeal. The story about the 70-year-old Keizer begins in April of this year when the French SPA, an Animal Welfare Organization, receives an anonymous letter in which the breeder is accused of breeding of wolf dogs in "deplorable" circumstances. Pure wolf dogs like the Saarloos and Czech wolf dogs are allowed in France, other wolf hybrids without clear origin are subjected to special regulations and are not allowed in the absence of papers. Also, Keizer was said to breed and sell the dogs in the name of a foundation. This Foundation called Les Loupes Ravis (The Happy Wolves) is a foundation that, according to its website, is dedicated to rehoming primitive dog breeds that are abandoned or need rehoming due to circumstances. After they have been stabilized and socialized, the Foundation is rehoming these dogs with new families, with the Foundation following up. Keizer is not unknown in the world of wolf dogs. Since her first Saarloos in 1973, she left her tracks in the world of wolf dogs, even though she has a controversial history. Particularly with the Saarloos wolf dogs, there is a fierce struggle between purists who want to avoid any blend of Saarloos wolfdog blood and on the other side the group of people who want to use crossbreeding to cope with hereditary health problems. More specifically, the breeding policy the Dutch Association of Saarlooswolfhonden is committed says: "The centralized breeding policy is characterized by a joint vision of breeding, in which all members take their responsibility for future-oriented breeding and population management. Together we put ourselves on the line for the greater importance: a healthy, reliable and breed typical Saarlooswolfdog. "The other breed club, the General Association of Friends of Saarlooswolfdogs, has a different view. According to them, there are too many inbreeding problems due to this restrictive measure. "Bitches do not get pregnant, and the mating of males was worrying, fewer puppies were born, the litters became smaller and smaller. Puppies were stillborn." Within the NVSWH, there was no hearing, and so the AVVS was established in 2006. Because Keizer was increasingly criticized by her outcross view in the Netherlands, she had already moved to the French Ardennes to establish her kennel there. She was also taken from the Dutch Judges register and registered in the French register of judges, the Societe Centrale Canine, the French Kennel Club. This went on for years without problems, and the kennel grew bigger and bigger. Until the anonymous letter arrived this spring. The SPA then stated they found neglected dogs. According to the French press, 83 emaciated dogs were found during the check the SPA executed together with representatives of the French court. Other sources mention 133 dogs kept under terrible conditions, including 60 puppies and young dogs. Iwt was said these weren’t the first complaints since in 2012 and 2015 the situation was brought to the attention of animal welfare organizations and police, but nothing was done tat the time. The French breed association for Dutch dogs supposedly had been informed, but did not take any action. Keizer was also a secretary at that association, and regularly worked as a judge. Although there was a one-year suspension as a judge, Keizer returned to the breed association afterwards. Indeed, if Dogzine asks about this matter at the French breed association, spokeswoman Annie Pouvesle states that no irregularities have been found, even last April. "Les services vétérinaires de la Préfecture suivait le dossier, en n'ont jamais constaté aucun mauvais traitement sur les chiens." According to Pouvesle, the dogs were not confiscated, but the SPA had allowed Keizer to voluntarily remise the dogs because 90 dogs were too many. The counteraction that had been going on for years would finally have been too much for Keizer. "Elle est l'objet de harcèlement depuis de nombreuses années. Ce sont ces mêmes personnes qui sont à l'origine de la plainte, et quai sur internet de fausses information (nombre de chiens incorrect, faux témoignages, etc.) ", or" She has been harrassed for years. These are the same people who are the source of the complaint, and spread the wrong information on the internet (being an incorrect number of dogs, false testimonies, etc.). The SPA in St. Omer, the place in question, also states that it is not a confiscation but a voluntary giving away. The dogs were not abused, but mainly malnourished, on the verge of bad treatment. "Ils n'étaient pas frappés ils s'agit surtout de surnombre et de manque de nourriture et soins c'est de la négligence mais ça commencé à être unmeform de maltraitance." Injuries other then regular things also were not present. In the shelter they could re-socialize, and the interest for the dogs turned out to be high. Most of them soon arrived in other homes. And before the lawsuit, Cornelia Keizer also states that it's especially a witch hunt on her and she has been planning to slim the kennel for a long time. "In view of my age, I started 10 years ago looking for a successor to continue my work. 3 failed attempts (hard work, not a lot of glamour in poop scooping, no financial reward!) urged me to hand over the dogs to the most prominent animal protection agency. There are no confiscated or malnourished dogs . " Both the breed association and other sources report that they have been regularly with volunteers at Keizer to help, and also to neuter the dogs. It is a fact that, thanks to Keizer’s efforts, there are still enough dogs, also in the Netherlands. A source reports to Dogzine: "Apart from this she has sold hundreds of Saarlooswolfhonden in the Netherlands between 1995 to 2008. Without her there would not have been a Saarlooswolfdog population outside the NVSWH." Keizer herself says: "I will be 70 this year and have spent all of my time on my dogs and the cynology in general for 44 years now: directorships in regional dog clubs, co-founder and years of chairman of the Association for Czechoslovak Wolfdogs, board member of several French breed clubs (BHCF, now ABNF) and the club français du chien de montagne de l'Atlas) "The French kennel club, the SCC, states they have no file on this case and have no further information on this matter. Keizer still had nine dogs, although she states the number is seven. Maybe one more litter in the future, but there is no rush: "Well-deserved rest and travel have my priority!" Also, Keizer wishes to remain a judge. "The groups I judge (groups 1,2 and 5) give me the opportunity to stay in touch with my favorite breeds and I hope to keep doing until at an even higher age!" Despite all this, Keizer’s role fort he breed remains of major importance. Thanks to her, although maybe not always fully monitored, there always was a relatively stable number of SWHs, also in the Netherlands. However, the NVVS sees those dogs most preferably removed from the studbook. Even though there are hardly any animals born in the last few years, according to the NVVS breeding records, as opponents report. The NVVS itself reports "There is no big breeding within the NVSWH." When the appeal is, is still unknown. Auteur Andre Heuzer http://dogzine.nl/en/newsarticle/saa...-4-months-jail __________________ . 'Z PERONÓWKI' FACEBOOK GROUP