Black under jaws, from wolf or GSD ???

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Yes they do.
Here you can see four of the Carpatian wolfs we handraised:
http://www.twhclub.de/wbb2/thread.ph...tuser=0&page=3
But staying black jaws are GSD-heritage.

Ina

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Yes they do.
Here you can see four of the Carpatian wolfs we handraised:
http://www.twhclub.de/wbb2/thread.ph...tuser=0&page=3
But staying black jaws are GSD-heritage.

Ina

Tanks fore the photos

But how can one be so sure that it is from GSD when the wolf also has it ???

Regards / M

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Because in wolfs only puppies have it. It gets lighter in the first year like it does in CSW following the standard.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Because in wolfs only puppies have it. It gets lighter in the first year like it does in CSW following the standard.

Thanks fore the answer

Regards / Mikael

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Mikael

But how can one be so sure that it is from GSD when the wolf also has it ???

The black muzzle is a sign of puppy in wolves - as far as I know the pups are removed from the pack hierarchy until around half year old, unlike in dogs.
Domestification actually causes preservation of some infant characteristics in adult dogs - like infantile behavior, big eyes, round head, smooth hair - some of them were even further supported by selection in pet breeds. It seems this was also true for black muzzle.

Ina, do you know what is the usual time for the muzzle to get light in carpathian wolves? It seems to me that most of wolfdogs have the light mask fully developed by 3 months of age, and i have seen some cca 2 months old pups with very distinct light masks in photographs...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

It was different in our wolfs but in general all 8 got total developed masks later than our wolfdogs. When you look at the last pictures on page 4 of the link they are about 6 month of age.
They are about 3 month on the picture where all three are howling, I woulnd´t buy a wolfdog looking like that in that age, they develop differently in the first year.

But I don´t think dark faces in dogs are due to Infantilisation.

Ina

[saschia]

Well, it might be only due to selection, but why? I mean most of the breeds which are not light in color have either no mask, or dark mask. Exceptions seem to me to be only black-and-tan colors and nordic breeds.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

That would work out if mostly the breeds that fulfill the babysheme would have no mask but most working breeds don´t have any eather.
There has an interesting research been done some time ago. Because the flight reaction of the foxes is a big problem in fur-production a scientist selected foxes only on one feature, tameness in the meaning of low flight-reaction. Within very few generations he got very tame foxes, with black and white spots and floppy ears. The theory on the domestication of dogs is that the wolfs with low flight-reaction did have an evolutionary advantage, they got more food on the dumps near human settlings and that the different looks came accidentially with that.

Ina

[hanninadina]

At what age young wolves have only white mask? How is or was it with your wolves Ina?

I saw a few weeks ago 4 1/2 month young wolve puppies in Wildpark Scharzer Berge near Hamburg with all black mask. So after what I read here it seems as if it is ok..?!

Thanks

Christian