Pacino's kennel

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by Rona

Paul, you seems to have misunderstood Paola's point. I understood (and so did others) that the matching from which Brix was born took place at de Louba Tar, and YOU yourself claimed earlier that matchings there were not reliable...

Then how can you be sure that Brix was born from the parents indicated in the papers if, accordintg to your earlier statements, breeding at de LT was lousy? Take no offence, I'm just asking in an attempt to find any logic in all that.

Well, that´s at least three of us having the same questions you still didn´t answer.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Well, that´s at least three of us having the same questions you still didn´t answer.

Well, I've recieved the answer on PM. Thanks, Paul.

[nanouk]

i have bred dogs for over 34 yrs, produced the top winning akita in america 2007 and in australia 2006-07, have studied genetics and health defects in animals worked and lived with wolves for many years, and have forgotten more about dogs than some people on here know about them, but they are all intitled to there say, i have looked at lots of pictures on this site from a lot of different countries and i can see distinct differences in appearence, hight,coat,colour and temperament in this breed, and i now know of one dwarf born

wow, could you get of your high horse and find the time to answer my question? You so eloquently have written a reply but failed to answer.

Or do you really believe with 34 yrs of experience in breeding you can proof with a picture of a suposed mating that you have a purebred litter.

DNA testing is not expensive, with the SWD in Germany all dogs will be tested in the future, non german breeders are already cooperating, and in Holland it is getting more regular as well, though not with cooperation fro the RvB and mentioning of tests on pedigrees like in germany
I remember reading on the kennelclub website that they do these test as well. If you do care for maintaining and safeguarding a breed, dna testing is a much more logical step than taking pictures, and i hope more CWD owners will start doing dna test on all litters as well! (and not abuse the rather childlike excuse that when others don't do it they don't feel the need as well)

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by nanouk

wow, could you get of your high horse and find the time to answer my question? You so eloquently have written a reply but failed to answer.

Or do you really believe with 34 yrs of experience in breeding you can proof with a picture of a suposed mating that you have a purebred litter.

DNA testing is not expensive, with the SWD in Germany all dogs will be tested in the future, non german breeders are already cooperating, and in Holland it is getting more regular as well, though not with cooperation fro the RvB and mentioning of tests on pedigrees like in germany
I remember reading on the kennelclub website that they do these test as well. If you do care for maintaining and safeguarding a breed, dna testing is a much more logical step than taking pictures, and i hope more CWD owners will start doing dna test on all litters as well! (and not abuse the rather childlike excuse that when others don't do it they don't feel the need as well)

i know when and where the parents of all my dogs where bred why would i need dna test, i have proof of brix biss de louba tars breeding, i trust the person who was present and was witness, all our dogs are health checked, if we thought that the dogs we got from europe were not correct we wouldnt have bought them, all our dogs originated from europe, you must now ask corrie keizer, rob de jagger ,koos and letty de graff and Annie montines for you are asking me are there lines correct,, the litter i bred from koos and letys stud dog give me an excellent litter and i have no need to question there breedings or there lines, so why have you?? nor have i any need to question the von rijnecker hof lines, so what is wrong with these lines i need to know? also if there is anything wrong with the lines from Annie montines? all our stock came from europe if you know of a problem please contact the breeders youself, as i said before we have no problems in u.k. with our breedings,,,and i would not insult any friends in europe to send proof of there breeding via dna to me, i trust these breeders, do you really think that koos and lety would have let me use there stud dog had they not known my bitch was correct? they are very respectable breeders and good friends, and i trust them 100%,,, i am sorry i can not answer your questions on my breedings, the breeders in europe who i get my dogs from you must mail them and ask for dna test, as for me i am happy and trust them, i know the parents of brix but to keep you happy please contact corrie keizer for dna test WE WILL PAY FOR ALL VET BILLS, what more can we do to help you? send the vet bill to
mr r winder cwcuk
station farm
station road
kent
tn262dg
england..
we at the czechoslovakian wolfdog club uk are very greatful for people like you who are concerned with dogs we have bought and used from europe and now we wait in anticapation on the dna results for brix bis de louba tar
the club will also pay for any other dna test you wish done on any of our dogs from europe or dogs we have used, if the money is required up front please send amount and details and we will do immediate transfer, thank you regards mr r winder on behalf of the CWC u.k

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Rona

Well, I've recieved the answer on PM. Thanks, Paul.

hi, as you can see we have asked nanouk to contact the breeders of our founder stock and stud dogs to ask for dna tests, our club will pay for all vet bills, what more can we do to help, we trust the people in europe, who bred our dogs, we trust the people whos stud dogs we use, we used one dog who carried the de louba tar affix but is bred from dogs not of de louba tar lines, we trust the person present at matting which produced brix, we health test all our dogs, we now have premission from local councils to keep our dogs with no licence ////,, that has taken 6 yrs, we keep record of all breedings so when breed gets recognition we can have kc pedigrees, we keep photos of matings and for the benifit of NANOUK we dna all dogs,, just Nanouk never asked , but we dont need to tell all we do, when my bitch was mated in Holland Koos filled in all the proper forms and registered the mating even though the pups where born in uk. it was still done correct, for the benifit of Nanouk tomorrow i will put copy of uk kennel club registration for my first litter, it was not the clubs fault our dogs where removed as many keep reminding us about in there arrogant mails, sad some people still think its funny,,,,, so now our club give Nanouk the oppertunity to get dna tests on all dogs we bought from and used from europe, our club pays for it all, then no one has any need to question our dogs, further more any time we decide to get or use dog from europe we will of coarse give Nanouk oppertunity to get dna for us and again we pay for all, what more can our club do to help, best regards paul

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Well, that´s at least three of us having the same questions you still didn´t answer.

hi i know where brix came from and i know he is from the dog and bitch on his pedigree, but to keep you and others happy we ask nanouk to get dna test on brix who is at de louba tar kennels our club will pay for all, we know what went on at the de louba tar kennels, hence i used brix,,, we await results, paul

[Azazel]

Hi Paul,

Do you test your breeding dogs for HD?
I couln'd find any HD results here on wolfdog.org which got me a little bit curious.

[Azazel]

The reason why i'm asking is that my dog Shadow has HD-D rating which is not that great as you can imagine, and when i look at his breeding lines i see the name Brix Bis de Louba Tar come popping up.

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Azazel

Hi Paul,

Do you test your breeding dogs for HD?
I couln'd find any HD results here on wolfdog.org which got me a little bit curious.

hi all our breeding dogs are tested for h/d ,they have eye test Every year is required in uk, we hip score at 2yrs of age, the dog is mature by then, some people hip score younger but our club decided 1 yr or 18 mths is not old enough, all test results can be sent if required, paul

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Azazel

Hi Paul,

Do you test your breeding dogs for HD?
I couln'd find any HD results here on wolfdog.org which got me a little bit curious.

people adding comments to this thread also have no h/d test results on wolfdog.org, all breeding dogs in u.k are h/d and eye tested. as are the stud dogs we use in europe.. paul

[nanouk]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi i know where brix came from and i know he is from the dog and bitch on his pedigree, but to keep you and others happy we ask nanouk to get dna test on brix who is at de louba tar kennels our club will pay for all, we know what went on at the de louba tar kennels, hence i used brix,,, we await results, paul

well, i am flattered that you use and remeber my name!
But i don't know why I should arrange dna testings?

I asked a simple q following on one of your statements.. (as a remimder, this one:

we keep photographic evedense of all matings

It is good to know you are doing dna testing. puzzles my why you had to make such a fuss around it, or was that all a scheme just to get your shot at getting back at a closed topic!
If you want dna testing done on dogs, you can if you have doubts, go the official way by contacting the kennelclub, which you , with all your experience should have known, and not via a privat person like myself, who is not even involved in breedclubs or anything!

Furthermore, i don't see the need of mentioning other breeders,when a q is directed to you, i did not insinuate anything, certainly did not judge your breeding, cause i have never been at your kennels or have seen your dogs other than in pictures and stoeries deliverd by others and certainly, unlike some others, won't spread unbased rumours !! What i personally do frown apon is breeding dogs without official FCI papers, same as the promise that those dogs will one day will be registered.. But that is MHO

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by nanouk

well, i am flattered that you use and remeber my name!
But i don't know why I should arrange dna testings?

I asked a simple q following on one of your statements.. (as a remimder, this one:

It is good to know you are doing dna testing. puzzles my why you had to make such a fuss around it, or was that all a scheme just to get your shot at getting back at a closed topic!
If you want dna testing done on dogs, you can if you have doubts, go the official way by contacting the kennelclub, which you , with all your experience should have known, and not via a privat person like myself, who is not even involved in breedclubs or anything!

Furthermore, i don't see the need of mentioning other breeders,when a q is directed to you, i did not insinuate anything, certainly did not judge your breeding, cause i have never been at your kennels or have seen your dogs other than in pictures and stoeries deliverd by others and certainly, unlike some others, won't spread unbased rumours !! What i personally do frown apon is breeding dogs without official FCI papers, same as the promise that those dogs will one day will be registered.. But that is MHO

how can a dog in uk have FCI papers?? as you stated we should do things as in europe, the dog brix bis de louba tar is in europe as are his parents, so our club asked you to help, as you told us that our h/d test results dont mean anything in europe, would are dna tests? i dont agree with people cross breeding saarloos but they do and the offspring have FCI PAPERWORK, so its not hard to get things past breed clubs or Fci in europe,,

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by pacino

hi i know where brix came from and i know he is from the dog and bitch on his pedigree, but to keep you and others happy we ask nanouk to get dna test on brix who is at de louba tar kennels our club will pay for all, we know what went on at the de louba tar kennels, hence i used brix,,, we await results, paul

Well that at least is an answer. Paul you yourself set doubts about Louba Tar breeding in this forum. You yourself suggested that Cory Keizer is not a trustworthy person. You can´t expect people to believe you on one side and don´t ask for your own Louba Tar used in breeding. There is absolutely no reason to feel insulted.

Ina